Useful Idiot

1 hour ago, Tenacious D said:

I blocked the Idiot months ago—it doesn’t help when all of you are quoting him.

I knew something was missing 😁

8 hours ago, casimir said:

 

But going back to my original response, I'm not sure why anybody expected him to be traded. coming off of his 2022.  Who is trading for him and what kind of deal is it?

Well, you're right in the sense of "who would want him?"  I was perhaps unfairly preoccupied with the irony of having him on a roster where the stated priority is to "master the strike zone"

His talents really don't key into that ethos very well.

On 2/25/2023 at 8:29 AM, casimir said:

Baez.....  So, I'm not sure why anyone expected that he'd be a goner.

 

Just think of all those valuable at-bat experiences that he's robbing from our ascendant  kiddie korps?

Of course for any Tigers fan, spring training is the best part of the experience.  Despite losing ballgame after ballgame,  we  can still find comfort in insisting that it doesn't really matter.

On 2/27/2023 at 5:42 PM, Jim Cowan said:

I like the offseason.

Of course you prefer the off season!  You're a Tigers fan.  Once the losing starts, that's when it becomes painful.

25 minutes ago, Motor City Sonics said:

 

 

Signing a big name on a bad team would have been dumb. 

I will admit you are right about that, and using my now infamous "the glass is half empty" brand of optimism, we have enough payroll headroom to sign not just one big name, but several. And they could easily have paid a luxury tax for one year while waiting for Miggy's contract to come off the books!

Think of all the money they saved these past five years  by being frugal. They got room to spend.

7 minutes ago, Motor City Sonics said:

 

As for your assertion that he did nothing, you are very very wrong.      He totally revamped the scouting and training departments,  made a bunch of minor league coaching hires and approved changes to the ballpark dimensions. 

 

The lights, don't forget the lights!!  ROFL!!

1 hour ago, gehringer_2 said:

 Harris seems to be banking on being able to get some of the current players to do better while he puts his systems in place for finding new ones. 

C'mon man. "mastering the strike zone"?  "put the right assets in place that will allow our younger players to reach their FULL potential"?   Can't you tell when someone is playing you?

The 2015 Royals were the fluke. All the jealousy they inspired among other owners believing that smart management could win cheaply, is just self-abuse. And if they don't stop it they WILL go blind... LOL!

37 minutes ago, Tiger337 said:

I also became a fan in '68.  

A few months back, one of your responses to my cynicism was a question asking "how long before I jump ship entirely?" (or words very similar).

Which of course had special meaning that  you at the time likely never intended,  considering my biological clock.  

7 minutes ago, oblong said:

Going after the best year after year meant obtaining slow one dimensional players that prevented the team from keeping their younger talent.

Who should they have acquired last off season?  

Prior to last year they got Baez.... how'd that turn out?

 

Well, he lead the Tigers in homers, I'll give him that (<-----------intended sarcasm)

I don't hate the man, but I felt it was a mistake settling on the lower priced spread when we signed him, and his performance last season did nothing to convince me that I was wrong.  Hows that for diplomacy? 

Hey, I'm prejudiced, I'll admit as much. I just have no use for former Cubbie shortstops to become Tigers.

I had my share of misgivings about DD, as well. In 2006 when we went through the trade deadline and picked up Sean Casey, with the explanation that with DaMeat coming off the DL, that was "as good as" acquiring another  top player. That seemed pretty obvious to me to be a con  job.  They were shining the fans on.

And to a large degree, I feel the current outfit's infatuation with "the future" is just more shine-ola.  If the fans are gullible enough to buy it?   etc

Tying this last thought into the base premise of this thread, what evidence might there be that the organization is NOT BS'ing the fans with some spiel?

How far does having ZERO of the games top 100 players on our roster go, towards proving a will to win?

The ZERO, IMO,  pretty much supports the idea we are being stooged

2 minutes ago, CMRivdogs said:

 

It's moe fun to be sarcastic than thin skinned

Again, as the relative "outsider",  any serious grief would surely be blamed on me. So, that is the "jacket" that I'm trying to not wear.

It's easy to "blame the troll" whenever there is dissension. But frequently the truth is the most serious trolls are deeply embedded within a forums base membership.  "Inhouse trolls" is what I call them.

26 minutes ago, oblong said:

I wouldn't want VMart or Prince on the team this year and Miggy will probably be a liability on the field so I'm not sure that makes the team better.

 

The point I had foremost in my mind is "headline talent".   When we had voids, we filled them with the top tier of what was available.  We can ruminate endlessly over the pitfalls of Prince and Victor, all players have a down side. But the point worth emphasis is, we went after the best that was available, year after year.

Made me believe we were at least serious about winning. I don't get that out of the present outfit.

30 minutes ago, Tiger337 said:

  You're an angy old man.  

More truth to that than you likely realize.   Back in 2018,  a five year rebuild offered an opportunity that I might again  see another winning Tigers team in my life time.   Pushing that forward another 5 years,  my ability to  stand witness becomes doubtful.

So yeah, I freely admit  there is some bitterness involved.

2 minutes ago, CMRivdogs said:

OK I admit being out of line with the White Sox snark. I should have said Cubs😉

One thing I feel worth mentioning.  I can be as "down in the mud" insulting as anyone. But I try to not be that person.  For one, I'm a relative outsider here, and whenever there is grief, the prevailing attitude is that the new comer is the cause.  So, I'm trying hard to NOT be that person. 

If you believe yourself to be getting the better of me in the "snark" department...it is only fitting that you realize that is because one of us isn't trying.  FWIW

6 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

Ha - well for sure tastes vary - DD's 8 DH lineups drove me slight crazy.

The path this current outfit has pursued, has changed my  outlook in one particular way, compared to what I thought was worth prioritizing, in the DD era.

4 consecutive division titles was a lot of fun, despite the post season let downs that followed.

The regular season lasts 6 months, the playoffs only one.   In balance, I'll take regular season dominance over "luck of the moment" post season exploits.    

5 minutes ago, Tiger337 said:

We misjudged you.  You're not a stupid kid.  You're an angy old man.  

You know what I think would be interesting?  If they would require breathylizer type interlocks be installed on computers, requiring internet message posters to "blow" before posting ....not so much as a barrier to participation, rather just to qualify the integrity of each contributor....list the number measured with each post.

That way when you get a particularly malicious response to a well meaning post, it could provide scope on what got you there. 

3 minutes ago, CMRivdogs said:

Maybe you should become a White Sox fan. That seems to suit you better

So clever, personal insults because you don't approve of my position.   

7 minutes ago, CMRivdogs said:

 

You sound like a bandwagon jumper who only remembers the few good years.

  Yep, I jumped on the Tigers Bandwagon in 1968...you busted me...lol!

My interest waned in the 90s with the Randy Smith and Ernie Harwell debacles..... but DD managed to rekindle my loyalty.

You can try and shame me all you want with suggestions that I am disloyal for being unwilling sing Kumbaya in support of these current clowns,..... but won't phase me.

20 hours ago, CMRivdogs said:

. DD didn't build the 2006-2012 teams over night....I'm willing to give Harris a couple of seasons.

 

FWIW, my feeling is that I've already given the Tigers organization 5 years while I've patiently watched them prioritize "cheap and controllable" over proven talent.  ( all the while claiming that doing so was a worthwhile sacrifice for our "future").

Replacing the old idiot with a new idiot is, (IMO)  just a trick to reset the clock of fan expectations, buying more time before spending any serious money.  A "stall", in other words.  

Sports IS entertainment, that we as fans are ultimately paying for the privilege.   How long you think  MGM or Universal Studios would stay in business without proven stars in the entertainment package? 

20 hours ago, CMRivdogs said:

What "big names" did you realistically expect to sign in the off-season? Who would you use for trade bait to get what you consider trade bait. And a few trade targets that Harris should have pursued, and do we know whether he did or not?
 

I'm get it you're not thrilled with the current team. I came into Tiger World full time with the 2001 club. DD didn't build the 2006-2012 teams over night....I'm willing to give Harris a couple of seasons.

 

Again, I have no appetite for the usual parlor games you guys seem to derive so much amusement from. This thread is not about why players I might prefer  all "suk" in your collective opinions because they fall short of key benchmarks that you cherrypick to bolster your own argument in support of your own pet players. 

Those type of arguments might make sense for a team that is at 89 wins and we are debating how we might push them over the top....but frankly we are not even in that ball park.

What this thread IS about, is the goose egg.   Out of the top rated 100 players, we have NONE of them,  zip, nada....In my opinion that is as good an indictment as I need to say this team is not serious  about giving the fans something to be happy about.

So, after further contemplation fueled by your observation that I was not bringing anything to the table....I have come up with one high-leverage suggestion that I sincerely believe could change our predicament.

Give Harris a "Sheffie" award, and bring back Dave Dombrowski as chairman and CEO, with unfettered control over all team operations. Get Chris Ilitch completely out of the decision making process, and give him some token position such as treasurer, but make it clear he is subordinate to DD.

I believe if you do that, we can begin a climb back to respectability, and roster at least the mean number of "top 100" players.

Again, it's the "zero" that I find noteworthy here, and not whether you personally approve of which players I might choose...ya'll have proven too many times in the past that endeavor is fruitless.

2 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

that seems a pointless sentiment. My interest/enjoyment in the team doesn't follow the payroll. In fact I think it has to be more frustration to be a Ranger's fan and imagine the $$ going up in smoke as that team loses games.

I don't know, gehringer_2...I felt A LOT better  back when we could look forward to Mr I bringing Miggys, and V-Marts,  and Prince Fielders to the roster each winter.   Even with the Fielder disappointment, he served  as evidence we were at least trying.

Saving money while looking for the next Ronny Rodriguez IS NOT WHY I WATCH THE GAME. 

1 minute ago, CMRivdogs said:

So in other words you have nothing useful to offer

I've become too much accustomed to the playing surface here, knowing full well anyone that i would suggest would get shot down over obscure garbage. I'm just not willing to furnish that cheap form of entertainment, anymore.

I'd feel better about our team having no chance to win if we were at least carrying a significant payroll, as evidence the owner is at least "showing up". The way I feel now, we have no chance to win because our owner is unwilling to "man-up", 

5 minutes ago, CMRivdogs said:

You're the one throwing stones. Man up...what would you suggest he should have done.

 

It's easy to critique.

He should have done something better than contemplate his navel all off season.   A number of top tier players changed teams this past year, none of them came here.    It's the total absence of any appreciable momentum that I'm despondent about.

3 hours ago, gehringer_2 said:

the funny thing with the Tigers is that the team K rate was 24% (BTW-Baez was 25%, so he hardly stood out).

With a team committed to "mastering the strike zone", where is there room for any player who swings at pitches 3' outside the strike zone? (assuming the claimed  "mastering the strike zone" strategy  is not just doublespeak for "we got our thumb up out azz, and can't be bothered acquiring accomplished talent)

I have cubbie-fan friends, and Baez is NOTORIOUS for his "hail mary"  plate discipline. He didn't just "go through a spell" of misfortune, what we saw was pure unvarnished Javy.