Kacie

1 hour ago, MichiganCardinal said:

I agree with this.

If there is an impartial jury of peers (or two) to be found in Oakland County, I think the defense has a really strong case here. Holding parents criminally liable for their child's actions is a very slippery slope, and I don't know if there is any precedent. They were negligent without a doubt in my mind, and would almost certainly be found responsible for damages in a civil suit. Did they commit involuntary manslaughter though? I'm not sure.

Say someone has a kid who is 15-17, mentally ill, but usually good at hiding it and very resistant to medication or therapy. Parent goes to the corner store for something one day and the kid has a mental breakdown, grabs a knife from the block in the kitchen, and kills someone who is just walking their dog down the street. Is that parent criminally responsible for their child's actions? They didn't force the child to be seen by a mental health professional after all. They left the child without supervision. They didn't secure their knives. Keep in mind that with no weapons charges being filed, that likely means they broke no laws as it comes to storing the weapon (which is infuriating in its own right, but also a separate conversation from whether the Crumbley parents are guilty).

It will be an intriguing case to follow.

You're scoffing at others for jumping to conclusions and biased against the prosecutor, but do you know all the evidence the prosecutor has?  The victims haven't even been buried yet.  The slippery slope stuff is a bit over the top.  From the very little information that has been released, this appears to be more than just innocent parents who didn't notice their weird kid had an issue.  They were near the Canadian border in a warehouse, but sure, they were planning on turning themselves in.  They're totally innocent, it's the big bad prosecutor being a meanie.  

9 minutes ago, Archie said:

You should take a look at what's happening today.  New York and California have no bail rules. Other places have low bail but this mostly follows liberal prosecutors and judges.  These judges are the ones giving light sentences for violent crimes.  Look what happened to Darrell Brooks in WI after he was out on $1000 bail.  That's not the only case.  One complaint is we are running out of prison space.  If that's the case they should be building a lot more.  Our population is growing daily.

You're joking, right?  Build more prisons?  

2 hours ago, smr-nj said:

This prosecutor looks like a media whore. Wants stardom. I feel for law enforcement there… she’s making a hard job harder because she wants to make a name for her. (Seems that way to me)

Seems to me like she's actually doing her job. About damn time someone is taking school shootings seriously.  Perhaps if there'd been a few more whores around, 4 more families wouldn't be burying their kids.  Bouchard dropped the ball and is trying to make it political, as usual.  She literally told Anderson Cooper last night that charges were being filed, announced there would be a press conference and it's been literally talked about all day and Bouchard didn't know?  Seriously?

Tyler Bertuzzi placed in Covid protocol.  Shocking.

I'm sure it's the masks and the vaccine that will traumatize them.

FWIW, I miss the thread about our departed members.  Not sure if the Mod is able to transfer it over here.  

43 minutes ago, Mr.TaterSalad said:

I'm so glad I didn't have to hear that stupid fucking Buckeye Across the Field fight song, or whatever those slack-jawed troglodytes down there in Columbus call it, 100x on Saturday. I'm also glad to not hear Gus Johnson stroking out screaming TOUCHDOWN OHIO STATE! CHRIS OLAVE! GARRETT WILSON! CJ HENDERSON! 100x during the game. It took me three years to figure out why I dislike Gus Johnson and I realized it has nothing to do with Gus himself, he's a fine announcer. Instead, it's because all my memories of Gus calling games are Michigan losing to Ohio State. It's the same reason I loved Keith Jackson and Bob Griese back in the day. So woah nelly and amen to that!

Ha, I was saying the same thing to my family.  I always found Gus Johnson to be annoying, but then I found him to be great during this game (Except that last touchdown where he had to be told by Joel Klatt that the OSU defense let them score.)

I hate that I didn't enjoy this one more because I've become so accustomed to the losses that I just expect something to go wrong.  Then they win and my first thought is, yeah, but they'll probably lose the Big Ten championship game.  Gotta change that and enjoy the ride. 

23 hours ago, apabruce said:

I guess this is the cancer thread.  My wife got diagnosed with lymphoma this week.  She has her first appointment with the hematologist on December 17th.  Apparently, there are lots of variations of lymphoma.  They all terrify me. 

So sorry.  You will get through it.  Lymphoma is very treatable in most cases.  If I may, I highly, HIGHLY recommend you make sure you see a LYMPHOMA specialist once you get the specifics.  You're right, may variations, Hodgkins, Non Hodgkins, B-Cell, T-Cell, Large cell, small cell, diffuse, non diffuse.   You'll become a pro in no time!  Take good care of yourself, too.

This is where coaching comes in.  Blashill needs to stop the bleeding and prevent this from being an extended 8-10 game losing streak and keep it a small down spell.  

They are who we thought they were.  There's a lot of reason be hopeful for the future and there's sure to be plenty of excitement this season, but they still have a long way to go and the talk of them being a play off team this year might have been a bit premature.  

Hard to listen to.  I think there are probably some good women announcers,  but Hextall's not it.  

I don't think they're afraid Blough will be worse, I think they're worried he won't be.  Not a good look having a QB making 25 million and having him be worse than a no name back up.

The PP and the PK have been transformed.  Don't know if it's Tanguay or the new additions, but I've seen more crisp passing and shots this season than the last few combined.  It would be amazing if they can keep this going, but I won't be surprised if they don't.  At least there's finally a light at the end of the tunnel and it's nice to have decent hockey to watch again and have active game day threads!

LSU fires Ed Orgeron 2 years removed from a National Championship.  Harbaugh is still here and probably will be for years.  Sigh

17 minutes ago, RandyMarsh said:

I'm not a Harbaugh faithful at all, I would definitely not oppose to him getting fired but lets not pretend like Michigan was this elite football program before he got here. They had lost 5+ games in 6 of the previous 7 seasons and Lost 3+ in 17 of the previous 20 seasons.  We've been like this for decades aside from a rare couple seasons. 

But Michigan used to regularly beat MSU and OSU.  Yeah, there have been lean years since the Lloyd Carr era ended, but it isn't like Harbaugh hasn't had years to build this program.  The slappies will be happy with the two or three loss season and the big wins over Nebraska and Indiana and a trip to the Citrus Bowl.

I remember them showing the sidelines at one point during the 3rd quarter.  Mel Tucker had fire in his eyes and was stomping around the sidelines like a Boss and his team was soaking up his energy.  Switch over to Harbaugh and he's just crouched over with his mouth hanging open like he couldn't figure out what was going on.  I knew then it was over, even though Michigan still had the lead at the time.  

Ugh, Buccigross is horrible at play by play.  Strangely, his voice sounded screechy and high pitched but, AJ Mlezko was easier to listen to and sounded knowledgeable and had good cadence. Talked enough, but not too much.  She's improved quite a bit.  Hoping that'll happen with Manon Rheaume.  She's pretty brutal to listen to at this point. 

As far as the game, the Panthers are an elite team, they hung with them, fought hard and got a point.  No complaints.

11 minutes ago, buddha said:

this is the problem with message boards.  people take what you say a certain way and infer things from what you wrote that you never meant to imply.

and then you get no benefit of the doubt when you say that's not what you meant.  

nobody here is blaming a victim or advocating for sexual assault.  having a different idea for what the repercussions for a management decision (if there is any disagreement) might be, or what the appropriate thing for an athlete to say in an interview is not defending sexual assault.

 

You might feel differently about that if you were the parents of the 22 year old Blackhawks intern who was assaulted not long after Beach reported the incident or the two men at Miami of Ohio who were sexually assaulted or the teenager in Houghton who was attacked.  All of them were assaulted because of the lack of action on behalf of the Blackhawks organization, likely players included.  You're one of those family members watching Toews defend the people who allowed their attacker to continue assaulting people and you think it's just about a press conference or a "management decision"?

Asking if someone was gay or what they were wearing comes off as victim blaming because it implies that sexual assault is about sex.  It is not.  I don't see why it is unreasonable to think a young player, a Black Ace, trying to make the team would not be intimidated by a member of the coaching staff saying he would ruin his career.  Obviously, Beach WASN'T intimidated by the homophobic implications because he TOLD EVERYONE!

What I would like to know more about is what happened to Beach after the season he was assaulted and going forward.  Did he ever get another chance with the Blackhawks or another NHL team?  It would seem odd a first round draft pick wouldn't get another shot and would be given up on so quickly.  Was he being punished for his reporting of the incident?

1 hour ago, buddha said:

im pretty sure toews was saying bowman/mcissac didnt do it (as in, didnt do the assault), not that they werent involved in the decision not to immediately do something.  but i could be wrong about that.  again, that's why you just need to issue a statement and be done with it.  throw em under the bus and move on.

toews isnt a master at nuance, lol.

“To me, Stan and Al, make any argument you want, they’re not directly complicit in the activities that happened,” Toews said.

“I just know them as people, and I’ve had a relationship and friendship with them for a long time as part of the Blackhawks family. People like Al and Stan have made coming to the Blackhawks . . . one of the special places to play hockey.

“Regardless of mistakes that may have been made, for someone like Stan, who has done so much for the Blackhawks — and Al, as well — to lose everything they care about and their livelihoods, as well . . . I don’t understand how that makes it go away, to just delete them from existence and [say], ‘That’s it, we’ll never hear from them again.’ ”

(To clarify, the investigation determined Bowman and MacIsaac were involved and complicit in the May 23, 2010, meeting in which Hawks brass determined not to take any actions regarding Aldrich until three weeks later, after the Stanley Cup Final.)

When following up with the need for a PR guy, you expanded on that and felt that Toews couldn't possibly have said anything right and the collective "we" would not be happy unless he throws Bowman under the bus, says some phony PC apology.  You also said you didn't have a problem with what Toews said, even though he specifically said that Bowman and MacIsaac were not complicit when the independent report said exactly that.  

Most of us at some point in our professional careers have to say what is expected. I mean, seriously, we see these teenagers  get harassed by the maskless assholes keep their cool and be polite and say the right thing. None of us get a PR rep or a written statement.  We just say what needs to be said based on being a professional, a decent human being and having half a brain.  Jonathan Toews is a college educated long time team captain in his 30's.  If he genuinely can't find the proper way to respond to the situation, it reflects poorly on him as a person, a leader, and a team mate.

The inactions of the Blackhawks organization lead directly to at least one other victim being sexually assaulted, likely more.

Are all the "PC" folks cool with another guy forcing a BJ and jerking off on your teenage son?  Or yourself? 

Ultimately, that's what it's all about.  Not a press conference or being PC or being media savvy.  If you're not okay with someone being sexually assaulted, you have to act accordingly to hold the guilty responsible and protect others.

I disagree with the notion that you have to be some East Cost intellectual communication savvy expert to simply act like a professional and a decent human being.  

I thought this article dissected the situation well.

https://chicago.suntimes.com/blackhawks/2021/10/28/22751091/jonathan-toews-stan-bowman-kyle-beach-blackhawks-sexual-assault-patrick-kane-jeremy-colliton

7 hours ago, buddha said:

what was toews supposed to do?  i dont understand?

I think if you watched the entire interview with Kyle Beach (Rick Westhead deserves some kind of journalism award for exposing this, btw) and then watch the entire Toews press conference, the contrast is just so striking.

As LS referenced, he spent most of his time pitying Bowman and Mac Isaac, how they will lose their livelihoods, how great they were to him and for the team.  They were just focused on hockey.  He had no idea who the player was.  I was just waiting for his nose to start growing.  When you look back and see all that the organization to did to protect Patrick Kane during that time from all his shenanigans, and the see how their inaction lead to others being abused.  Hard not to be infuriated by it.

Just had to comment on what a colossal piece of shit Jonathan Towes is.  He couldn't have made himself look any worse and was so obviously lying.

Jackie Redmond of the NHL Network ripped him a new one in an epic takedown.  If I was more tech savvy, I'd post the video.  It's worth the watch.