gkelly

In 2027 you can post a thread about how much better those prospects are than the prospects of 2021-2022 that eventually busted out.

Of course those guys look awful now because none of them did much in the majors.  If they had all turned out to be at least average MLB players, you would think differently.

The St. Louis Cardinals have had 1 season under .500 this century.  Their payroll is usually somewhere between 10th-15th in the league; they don't spend like the Dodgers, Yankees, Mets, etc, yet they spend their money wisely.  They are a mid-size market.  The don't ever rebuild but always have a pipeline of competent pitchers coming up from the minors to help keep them in games.  They don't overspend on big time players but aren't afraid to sign a guy to a reasonable contract.  They always have great attendance because fans know they will put a quality product on the field.  St. Louis, to me, is the best run and ideal franchise in pro sports.  This is what the Tigers need to shoot for.

The old timers tell me that Williams and Musial were the best players they ever saw.  

I think a good ballplayer in any era would find a way to be a good player in any other era.  Williams was obsessed with hitting.  If he had that attitude today with the proper training, nutrition, etc. he would be just fine.  He was 6-3, 205 lbs in his playing day.  I imagine he would lift weights, train hard, etc.  He also had 20-10 eyesight which would be a huge advantage today.  He ended up with a .344 average, .482 OBP, and .634 slugging percentage.  He did manage to hit 521 home runs while missing 5 years in his prime years while averaging around 36 home runs a year in the years around those.  Had he not missed those seasons, you are talking possibly around 700 home runs, 3500 hits, 2400 rbi, 2700 BB, 2400 runs.  He won 2 MVPs and got screwed out of 3 other MVPs because he wasn't a Yankee.  He would have been a contender in those missing years as well.  Little doubt he would easily be considered the greatest player of all time had he not missed those years.  

On 7/22/2022 at 10:50 AM, chasfh said:

Speaking of Ted Williams, look where he's "buried" ...

I seem to remember his head was removed form his body and the place where he was frozen lost power and he thawed out...

He certainly doesn't have a lot of skills left, but the FO and ownership isn't going to release him.  Whether he embarrasses himself or not, he wouldn't be the first over the hill superstar who did that.

I understand that.    Nowhere did I ever say he wasn't going to get paid.  

Cabrera has always been a loyal Detroit Tiger and the organization isn't going to embarrass him by releasing him, etc.  If the Tigers had any chance of being a contender next season, maybe they ask him to retire, etc. but it really isn't going to make any difference at all because they will be fortunate to win 65-70 games, they aren't going to sign a big bat to play DH next season, and there isn't anyone in the minors that Cabrera will be blocking.

They aren't going to DFA Cabrera.  This isn't the Detroit Lions who treat their franchise players with contempt.  The Tigers will be lucky to win 65 games next season, so I doubt if Ilitch really cares.  They will just ride with him, let him DH 110 games or so and have a nice little ceremony for him at the end of the season.  

45 minutes ago, Jim Cowan said:

Did you read the part where I said they could release him?

I believe some posters have selective reading ability.

1 hour ago, gehringer_2 said:

If that means staying in the lineup until it hurts the team badly enough that they agree to put on the 60 day through 2023 (or DFA) that's probably what makes most sense for him to do.

I definitely think it will be an amiable parting. I don't think the organization wants conflict or drama over his retirement/leaving.  Cabrera isn't going to play after his contract is over and there isn't any other team that would pick him up.  He can't get around on fastballs anymore and doesn't hit the ball with any authority.  But with the Tigers not being a serious playoff contender next year, maybe the FO doesn't care about his performance.  At worst, I think they talk him into retiring at the All Star break if he is really struggling.  

The Tigers aren't going to force him out.  He seems like he enjoys playing still.

Do you think Ilitch really cares?  He's going to pay the guy anyway, plus throwing out a beloved icon hasn't really worked out in the past for the franchise.  It's not like they are going to be contenders next year and who else do they have in their organization?

He'll play out next year and when his contract is over retire, they will have Miggy day for the fans...maybe a nice retirement tour.

On 8/4/2022 at 8:36 AM, chasfh said:

Same with Tork. He was the consensus 1/1 so it’s hard to fault any team in that position for taking him there.

There are always arguments for and against anyone in the draft. 

Mize didn't exactly have the eye popping velocity that other pitchers do but was seen as being more MLB ready than others.  There were some alternate options such as Bohm, India, or Bart.  With the way the game is transitioning to starters basically being 5 or sometimes 6 inning pitchers, it might make more sense to go with the bat potential.  

The main argument against Torkelson is he is a 1st baseman.  Everyone it seems (well except Detroit) has a decent hitting first baseman.  Among starting first basemen, only Eric Hosmer was drafted really high in the draft (3rd).  Naylor and Cron were the other guys drafted in the first 30 pics (both in the mid-teens).  It's a bad return on investment to pick a 1st baseman that high when you can find talent later in the draft or sign international players; plus they can't transition to another position because they aren't athletic enough.  I think Tork has a long road to travel, and hopefully he keeps a good attitude and work ethic.  I think the Tigers should consider letting him work through his issues in the minors next season for as long as it takes.  The guy is only 22, so even a full year working on stuff in the minors might even be in his best interests.  I know fans want him up in the majors, but the Tigers aren't going to be contenders for a few years minimum anyway, and it's more important to get your top prospect the confidence and develop sound mechanics for the future.

I'm not saying either one of them were bad choices or not the consensus pick, but there were other options.  

It's fashionable to say old, desolate cities such as Detroit are glamourous now because one or two blocks have been fixed up.  I guess the abandoned homes, crack houses, and packs of stray dogs roaming around the streets are trendy now.

Miggy will be back next year.  What's it really going to hurt?

This organization has no offensive player, absolutely no one that is a legit average or above average MLB player that is on the major league roster or close to being in the majors.

But the rebuild is over.  `

It's hard to get mad at Avila because he has already proven he is awful at his job, but it isn't his fault he is still employed.   Ilitch isn't going to fire him and pay two people a salary.

On 8/4/2022 at 1:54 AM, Jim Cowan said:

Well but I see it the opposite way, his reputation as a guy who can't lead a clubhouse has everything to do with the mutiny about the garbage cans.

That is a valid observation.

I'm pulling for Avila to draft a pitcher with average velocity and a penchant for arm trouble

or

A player who is locked into one position because he isn't athletic enough to play anywhere else.

On 5/12/2022 at 11:39 PM, buddha said:

charlotte?  nashville?  austin/san antonio?  vegas?

I am really surprised N. Carolina doesn't have a franchise.  The Raleigh area has over 2 million people and Charlotte has around 2.5 million.  Both are really beautiful areas and growing quickly.  It's at least a 4 hour drive from Charlotte to Atlanta or Raleigh to DC.  I can't see the Tigers moving out of Detroit, and I think Oakland, Pittsburgh, Kansas City, and Tampa Bay are much better candidates to move.  Oakland isn't even going to get to 700k attendance this season.  Detroit is 21st out of 30 in attendance.  In 2016, the last time they fielded a decent team, they were 13 and in 2014, they were 7th overall in attendance.  They reached 3 million in 2013.  The fans go to the game as long as there is a decent product on the field.  You put a garbage team out there, and regardless of the location, people aren't going to attend the games.  

Methinks Hinch's reputation as a solid manager has more to do with garbage cans than anything else.

It's almost like Avila just wanted to get rid of Fulmer; it seems like such a little return for someone who could really help a playoff team.  Fulmer is a legit late inning arm.  I am also glad that Avila didn't trade any of the other pieces from the bullpen because it would have just been giving guys away for nothing.

This is the house that Avila has constructed:  Probably the worst starting nine (DH included) in MLB.  Two #1 overall picks and neither one looks to be anything special (I know Torkelson is young but he looked completely overmatched this season).

An overachieving starting rotation...a very good bullpen.  A minor league system devoid of legit prospects.

It's silly to be mad at Avila.  He's already proven that he can't run a franchise successfully.  It's not his fault that he is still employed.

1 hour ago, Tiger337 said:

It's surprising that they brought him up at all given that he batted .132/.270/.245 in July. 

He fits in with over half the players in the organization with that slash line.

I have a bad feeling that Mize will only turn out to be a middling starter and Torkelson will be a bust.  Ugh.  I feel the Avila regime drafts will not produce many above average MLBers.   

Methinks there is probably something going on here other than a marital issue.  One could conjecture that there is something illegal going on back in Venezuela

Those guys have done it longer.

I don't know about top 10 but he is definitely one of the top 30 or so offensive players of all time for sure as it is.

Anybody who is competent in the majors should be considered a success regardless of where they were drafted. i.e. Beau Briske.

We will miss him when he is gone after next season.  Truly one of the greatest players in the history of MLB (same with Pujols).  As of this moment, they are the two greatest players of this generation.

This year he is the heaviest strictly singles hitter in history.