RedRamage

Well, if it wasn't over before now it is... INT. A couple of kneel downs and the Panthers start off 2023 with a win!

TD Panthers... pretty much looked like the same play were they scored before. This time the point after is good. 29-13, that's pretty much game over with just 1:44 left in the 4th.

QB for the Panthers is on fire! Love 19/21 for 216 yards. 3 TD, no ints. 149.1 QBR!

And the Panthers just did a SOL. Huge interception called back because of a PI on a receiver who wasn't getting the ball thrown to him. And then they get a strip-sack and fumble recovery... so... I guess that's almost as good.

TD Panthers! Nice pass down the middle. 22-13 after the missed point attempt of the day.

Panthers playing pretty undisciplined. Lots of penalties.

Forced fumble recovered by the Panthers on the Gamblers next possession.

Probably not necessary to have individual thread for each game. Anyone watching today? Panthers started out hot, then Houston poured it on for a while. A near pick-6 down to the 2 yard line got the Panthers back into the game. They punched it and are now leading mid-3rd qtr by 3 points.

How many coaches who had zero success have gotten a second chance though? I mean sure there are a lot of re-treads who'd been fired by a team, but there's usually at least some level of success to point too. Other than Fontes no one has won a playoff game. Ross? 27-30, two playoff losses, essentially quit in the middle of a season. Mornhenwig? 5-27 Mariucci? 15-28 Marinelli? 10-38, including 0-16 Schwartz? 29-51 Caldwell? 36-28 ... wait? He had a winning record? Holy Crap. A Lions HC with a >.500 record. Patricia? 13-28, fired midseason. Edit to add: There's almost something to be said about one of the worst team in the league for a long period of time firing a coach. Is another team going to really look at a coach that the Lions fired and think: "Yeah, he could be good."

I think Schwartz problem was a discipline one... both personally and team wise. I don't think he had his team under control and I don't think he had himself under control.

Disagree. I love my 1pm Sunday afternoon games.

And what do you propose that the leagues should do?

I think age is always relevant... it's how relevant? A receiver, a running back, a DE... age probably plays more of a factor there vs. a QB where they're not going to be running around quite as much... I mean unless they're a running QB.

D'oh! Yeah, my sheet has 14 and 54 as well. I just looked at the completely wrong columns: The calculation of winning percentage and projected record is still accurate, I just copied down the wrong columns when making the post.

My initial thought, like many others here, was that I'd prefer to keep him and let him walk after 2023 for just a 5th round pick. But upon further contemplation I think that he was so far down the depth chart for the Lions that they probably figure they can pick up someone off the street for the same production and less money. I also think that there's a very good chance that this signals that the Lions are planning on drafting a CB rather early on. One of the reasons they might not have done that is that they already have a relatively crowded DB room and drafted CB may not see the field much. Well, the room is now a tad thinner so there's not as much of a concern there. Obviously it'll still depend on how things shake out in the draft but my guess is we'll see a CB taken in the first two rounds now.

So you're saying there's a chance? You are of course correct and I know that 9 games is too quick to rule out a team. However, it is work noting that the Runs for vs. Runs again in 2011 was 40/50 in that 10 game stretch while in 9 games we have 27/62. That's a projecting winning percentage of .400 vs. .181. But again... your point is correct. It's too early to write off the team right now.

The downside is that 11.2M for 2024. We don't know if we've got the space for that or not.

I don't want to speak for everyone else, but for me personally... I don't see a QB worthy of the pick here. But again I'm not Brad Holmes. Maybe he see something... maybe he's like: "There's this one weird trick that GM's don't want you to know about" that he and Campbell can do with QB-X that will probably turn him into the next super star QB. If that exists... then go for it! Now is the time with a mostly complete team with a second 1st round pick, with a mostly down NFC-north. If you don't see it in a QB, then don't do it. Maybe instead of swing for the fences with Carter and say: "We think we can motivate him properly and get him on the straight and narrow." If so, then do it. But if Holmes and company see a guy who they think they can turn into the next Tom Brady because they think they see the one little thing that's holding him back that other teams are missing... then you go for it even with Goff in the fold. You don't pass on a 10-20 year super star because you have a very good player in that position right now.

I tend to agree. Based on what I know I wouldn't draft a QB at 6. But again I admit I don't know all. IF Holmes sees a franchise QB in someone available, then I'll understand if they take a shot.

Yeah, they absolutely could hit a HR with Bijan. I'm not saying that they can only get that with a QB. I'm saying that IF they think the QB is the HR, then they could, and probably should, take him in the current situation they are in. And I was saying that what you said was not factually correct: "I would also add that Quinn was in his 1st year as GM when Goff was drafted and when Stafford signed his contract. They were coming off a 9 win season just like they are now so there was faith in the GM at the time." When Goff was drafted (April of 2016), Quinn had no history of drafting as the GM. He'd been on the job for less than 4 months. The Lions were also coming off a 7-9 season when Goff was drafted. If you're talking about 2017 (January thru to the draft), then Goff wasn't available then. I don't know what QBs were available in 2017 so I don't know if I'd advocate for drafting one then IF the Lions where in the same situations then that they are now (which they weren't). Here's the thing: I think the majority of us are looking at the situation and saying: "Ya know what... the stars are sorta aligned right now... if the right guy is there then Holmes should grab him, even if he's a QB. I may not see any of the QBs as the right guy, but I'm also not the Lions GM with access to the information that he has." Meanwhile I get the feeling that you are saying: "There's absolutely no situation in which we should draft a QB. Just none. Even thinking about it is stupid. Don't touch a QB no matter what. None of the high level guys will be as good as Goff and none of the low level guys will pan out so it isn't worth even considering." To go back to my silly baseball analogy: Man on third, no outs, 3-0 count. I'm saying: "You might get a good pitch, so be ready to swing." It feels like you're saying: "There is no chance you'll get a strike. None. Do not swing, do not even think about it." If I'm misunderstanding your position, please correct me.

Honestly, I'm getting tired of you taking one thing I said and then applying that one piece as if it's a universal rule I'm advocating. I never said we can only draft if we have multiple 1sts. Having multiple 1st rounds this year is ONE reason that the Lions could consider taking a shot IF there's a guy at 6 that they see having a real shot of being a franchise type player.

No, no, and no. Based on what I see... what QBs are in this draft... I wouldn't do it. But I also know that I don't know what Holmes knows. From where I'm sitting everything looks like a change up outside... but I also know that I'm sitting in the nose bleed section. Holmes is in the batters box. He better key his eye out for a fast ball down the middle. IF he see it, he should swing away. The assurances I asked for is essentially saying: Can you guarantee that next pitch will be a ball in the 3-0 count will be a ball? If see, then Holmes shouldn't even think about swinging. If you can't guarantee that it will be a ball... then he better be ready to swing, just in case. No, you didn't. You talked about Goff getting drafted in 2016 and said that the Lions were in a similar situation because in 2016 they came off a 9 win season except Goff was drafted before the 2016 season, not after.

Again, the situation was different then. Worse team, no second 1st round pick. New front office, new coaching staff. Not a situation where you swing for the fences. Disclaimer just to make it super duper abundantly clear... using my other analogy: Right now it's 3-0 count, runner on 3rd, no outs... IF it's a fast ball down the middle, swing away. If it's a slider outside and low, then don't swing away.

Yes, Goff was very good in 2022. No question. Can you assure me that: 1. Goff will be as good (or nearly as good) in 2023? 2. Goff will not ask for a very large extension after 2023? 3. Goff will not have an career ending injury? I'd say probably yes to 1, maybe yes to 2, and probably no to 3. But I can't assure that and I doubt Brad Holmes can either. So it at least makes sense to *think* about the QB position. Yes, the defense was very bad last year, particularly in the secondary... and guess what: They've done a LOT in FA to work on that. So yes, we're in a 3-0 count, no outs, runner on third base. We're in a position where we could swing for the fences if we see what looks like a fast ball coming down the middle. You got a few things wrong there... 2015 Lions season: 7-9 2016, Jan: Quinn hired 2016, April: Goff drafted 2016 Lions season: 9-7 In the 2016 draft Quinn was brand new, so this was his first draft and the Lions were 7-9. Their draft pick was at 16. So, not coming off a great year, not with a GM who had a track record, not with a high draft pick, not with a second draft pick in the first round, not with a feeling that they are front runners for the division BEFORE the draft. So no... going into the 2016 draft the Lions aren't anything like the Lions going into the 2023 draft.

I don't recall too many situations with Stafford in which: 1. We had two first round picks 2. We had a mostly complete team (on paper) 3. We had faith in our GM to make good evaluations of players 4. We had faith in our GM to find diamonds in later rounds 5. We had Stafford on the verge of a his contract running out Show me a year where we had all 5 of those things and I'd probably see some logic in looking at the QB position and evaluating long term solutions. I do seem to remember many times arguing with people that weren't super high on Stafford (not that they hated him, just that they weren't sold that he was the answer) and saying that we have much bigger issues on the team than QB. Let's address those first then we can talk about upgrading QB if need be. That seems kinda like the situation we're in right now.