Stanley70

7 minutes ago, MichiganCardinal said:

Moseley was probably a top three pure slot corner on the market. He blew out his ACL last October, so obviously it's a prove-it deal, but the last time they signed someone to a prove-it deal it worked out pretty well.

Surprising they would bring Harris back along with Moseley. We may actually have depth at the CB position after the draft. 

Free agency week is here. The Lions have pretty much the same cap space going in as they had last year. They have will to create some room to resign some of their own free agents and add a piece or two from outside. Here is what i think they will do.

They will keep Romeo and cut Vaitai and Harris.

They will resign Cominsky, Anzalone, Elliot, and Buggs on defense. They will let Harris and Hughes go.

On offense they will keep Williams and let Brown and Chark go.

Beyond that they will look for a decent CB that doesn't require a multi year deal. And look to add depth with budget signings on the OL and another CB.

Obviously if othere organizations value some of our free agents more than Holmes does they may not be able to bring them all back.

Unless they get a CB in free agency I have to think that is the direction they go at 6. They just have to get much better there. 

However if they just have a much higher grade on one of the DL maybe they wait.

Cam Newton and Richardson are both 245 lbs. Jackson is 212lbs, I don't think he'll last as long. I would not be interested Jackson.

Eddie Brinkman and Norm Cash circa 1973

28 minutes ago, MichiganCardinal said:

I didn't see this yesterday. Sheesh.

So I guess the Seahawks won't be drafting a QB. 

46 minutes ago, RandyMarsh said:

The Saints have seemingly been in "cap hell" since Obama's 1st term yet always seem to be able to keep whatever good player they want or sign FAs. Whoever their Cap guy is deserves a raise for always creating these ways to manipulate their space.

I was looking at NO cap situation on Spotrac and they are currently at 284,000 against the cap next year. Michael Thomas has a 60M cap hit by himself.

Tyree Wilson could be an option for them at 6. I would guess it depends on if they bring back Cominsky and/or Okwara though. Even if he is there that may be a trade back possibility.

As far a CB's go i think there is Porter/Gonzales/Weatherspoon and then a drop off for the next level. If they want a CB1 they may have to get him with their first pick, because those 3 may be gone by 18. 

I think it's more likely they trade up for a QB than take a RB in the first.I know it's tempting but they have Swift for another year and there will be RB's in next year's draft.

The Tigers signed Trevor Rosenthal, who hasn't pitched in a couple years. They had him in like 2018 and gave up after he couldn't throw strikes. He then went on to have a decent year with KC I believe.

2 hours ago, Mr.TaterSalad said:

Nolan Smith, Edge/OLB from Georgia, ran a 4.44. He might be a day 2 guy to watch for with the Lions second round pick if they don't go with a Tyree Wilson or Myles Murphy type player in the 1st.

I don't think they are taking a DE in this draft, unless Wilson or Anderson drop to them and they just have them rated way above the rest of the board. 

Goff is probably going to want a deal next off season. So if they do give him one that kind of locks the Lions into Goff for a while or take a massive cap hit. Or they could wait until he is a FA after the 24 season and roll the dice on that.

Tough call, but they have to look at all options starting with this draft.

If there is a QB that they feel is a franchise player at 6 they would be stupid not to pick him. Goff is going to get another big contract and you can debate whether or not paying mid tier talents huge money at that position is a winning move going forward.

That said they would have to be pretty sure of themselves because it could backfire obviously.

2 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said:

KL2 is a well documented liar but he is right here. You originally said this:

Your whole premise was that they wouldn't be big players in free agency because of the cap. People have pointed out that the cap is not the reason they wouldn't be players in free agency. The Lions have the cap space to sign a big free agent or two, it's whether they want to. Your post was talking about them being limited by the cap. 

Look, I understand they can push money due out into later years via signing bonuses, voidable years, etc.  I didn't specify that, i figured most understood that. 

But the point is that they are limited by their cap space in that pretty much all of the contract dollars they would be adding,  beyond signing their own guys, would have to be forced in and burdening future teams with extra cap dollars. They do not want to do that as i figured.

2 hours ago, KL2 said:

Wow talk about not accurate at all. 

I went "ape shit" because you said we could AFFORD big players. That is why. Then you change an said we wouldn't be big players. Those are two totally different concepts. 

I said you didn't understand how contracts work because you don't. You in your argument the Lions couldn't AFFORD players used examples of Bradberry making $15 million a year. that is AAV not cap hit, different concept which you don't understand. 

I used Flowers as an example to show how AAV and cap hit isn't the same. In year one (which is what the Lions would be signing any big player for this offseason) it was dramatically less than his AAV. 

I never once said we should focus on AAV, never not once. You can link it. 

Just keep making stuff up, you were wrong in your inital post, wrong in your summary of it. And have shown you don't have a grasp of the siutation. 

Just admit when you are wrong, it's ok buddy. 

The literal first line in my post was that they probably wouldn't be big players in free agency. To which you replied that it wasn't based on fact at all.  They would use up their cap space on resigning their own guys, and obviously wouldn't be backloading a bunch of contracts to fit guys in this year.

6 hours ago, Mr.TaterSalad said:

That's disappointing to hear. If the Lions add an immediate impact player or two in free agency or via trade, like a Jalen Ramsey or Jamel Dean, they could really go places next year in the weaker NFC. Sitting on their hands and bringing back a bunch of their own guys or bargain shopping like they did last year is a mistake IMO. They're in a position now to take a giant step forward.

Maybe I'm misreading the the context of the quote or over thinking it, but it gives me serious Ted Thompson in Green Bay vibes. The Ted Thompson model for building a team and only signing bargain free agents and resigning all your own guys only worked on Green Bay because they had two generational QBs in Brett Favre and Aaron Rodgers. I hope Holmes isn't trying to replicate that here.

I suggested last week that he Lions wouldn't be big players in free agency and KL2 went ape shit. He said I didn't understand how contracts work, brought up the Trey Flowers deal, and said we need to focus on the AAV. 

Unless they draft a QB by the end day 2 they will bring in someone like Nick Foles.

The Rams have to get under the cap by March 15, so it could happen sooner.

54 minutes ago, KL2 said:

Let's look at your first post

"It's looking like Detroit will not be big players in free agency, or resigning Chark. Even if they cut most of the guys on the bubble like Okwara and Harris that will only leave them with enough to resign a couple of their own free agents, plus maybe a couple of mid tier guys."

You literally wrote they will only have the cap space to sign their own guys and couple of mid tier free agents. 

You in no way in that post wrote that they could sign a big name. You literally said they can't. That is what people disputed. Then in your next post you came and said, well...they could but it would eat up everything. In no way does it say that in your first post in quotes above. 

You were wrong in your break down in the cap in that you don't understand how contract work. Yes flowers went up in year 3. Not sure what the heck that has to do with anything. It didn't stop the Lions from signing him no? Just like if Bradberry is 5 million this year and 25 million in 2026 it won't mean they don't have the cap space to sign him in 2023. 

And yes teams caps will be different. Again, what does that have to do with anything and it in no way deters from the fact the Lions do have the cap space to sign a big name, which you said is impossible because they only have the cap space to resign their own gusy and a couple of middle tier free agents. 

Everyone knows you can backload, add voidable years like they just did with Chark, and kick the can down the road. I didn't clarify that, my mistake. I did not imply it was impossible, just unlikely without serious cap pushing.

And that is what they will have to do to add a big name free agent, fact. Unless they want to go cheap on replacing the 8 starters that are unsigned as of now. So if they replace/resign Jamaal, Brown, Wright, Chark, Buggs, Anzalone, Cominsky, and Elliot they will eat up their current cap space. Not to mention the depth needs they have. 

They may do a little can kicking but unless they really like Dean or someone else I don't see them pushing too much out to future years. Like your Trey Flowers example, if they want to backload the bill will come due later when it is time to extend Sewell, Jackson, Goff, ARSB, etc. Cap space goes up but so does the cost of players contracts.

27 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said:

They have multiple resources. The proposed trade is a 1st and 4th. The Lions still have another 1st plus two 2nd's to address the defense. They have the opportunity to make this position elite. They also project to have $122 million in cap space in 2024. The cap will go up. The Eagles finished last year 9-8 after starting 2-5 and went and traded for AJ Brown and signed him to an extension. 

Holmes has stated he wants to build through the draft, so giving up a bunch of draft picks for what may be our 3rd best WR doesn't seem like a move he would make. 

If he does make a move like that i would guess it will be for a CB1.

4 hours ago, KL2 said:

Do you think that the cap hit in the first year of a contract is the same as the aav?

 

Also the scenario you proposed goes counterintuitive with your first. You did prove they would have the cap space to sign a big name. The question is whether that it is smart. But you said they couldn't have the cap space to do it.

 

Your idea is just wrong in that the Lions have more cap space than most and with how nfl contracts are structured. They will be able to afford just about anyone they want to. 

(For your future refence when the Lions signed flowers to 5/90 his cap hit year one was 6 million)

I said "It's looking like Detroit will not be big players in free agency".   I did the math, in order to add a big name they will have to do some financial shenanigans to make it work. And as i said they could.

BTW yes Trey Flowers cap hit was 6.5M the first year, and in year 3 it was 20M.

And the cap space teams have right now will be different from when free agency begins March 15.

4 hours ago, KL2 said:

This isn't based in fact at all

Spotrac has us at 16M right now. If we cut Brockers (10M) and Vitai (6M) that gets us to 32M. If we cut both Harris (4M) and Okwara (7M) that gets us to 42M. Best case without restructures. It is not a given that both Romeo and Harris will be cut, probably unlikely. So it could be less that.

I am guessing that they are going to resign Cominsky and and Williams at 4M a year each. So that leaves 34M. Plus they usually have 8-10M leftover for emergencies, so that gets us to 26M.

On offense they will need to add a a starter at OG. They only have one TE under contract in Mitchell, so they need at least 1. They need a swing tackle and depth on the interior. Plus a back up QB.

On defense they only have Levi and McNeil under contract at DT, probably need at least 2 there. At LB they only have Barnes and Rodrigo, probably need 2 there. They need at least 2 CB's that are playable and a safety since Walker is out.

Obviously they will fill some of those needs in the draft but if they eat up 15M a year on Dean or Bradbury they will only have about 11M leftover to fill all of the rest of the needs. 

They could do a big restructure with Goff or Ragnow pushing some money out to future years. Or backload a contract with more guarenteed money due later in the deal.

We'll see but in order to make it work with a big time FA they are going to have to push guarenteed money out a few years when Sewell and ARSB will be due contracts and Goff as well.

It's looking like Detroit will not be big players in free agency, or resigning Chark. Even if they cut most of the guys on the bubble like Okwara and Harris that will only leave them with enough to resign a couple of their own free agents, plus maybe a couple of mid tier guys.

Holmes could surprise but I doubt they get the CB1 in free agency this year.

If they don't retain Chark I can see WR being a potential target on the top 2 rounds. Beyond ARSB Jamo has all of about 5 career targets and Reynolds and Raymond are more 4/5 types than starters. 

Keith Law, Baseball America, etc comes up with their team lists through conversations with numerous scouts employed by teams. That is where they get the lions share of their information. If he doesn't like Tigers prospects as much as you think he should it's probably because that is what he is hearing from other scouts. 

It is just for entertainment, and is basically obsolete a month after it is written.