Betrayer

Curious to see if Wiseman plays and if so, how they utilize him.

I completely agree that we're in the Talent Accumulation phase. In fact, I think the idea of trying to win before you land a superstar or two All-Stars to build around is setting yourself up for years of mediocrity. Which is why I've said that his seat is getting warm with "the fans", but I don't believe it's anywhere near warm with the owner. In fact, he just got an extension. Personally, the issue I'm having is: They've said over and over that they want a defensive minded team that can compete for a playoff spot next year and I can't see the vision for the team he's building or how he expects to accomplish that objective with it. Overall, I still think he's been a net positive because I like his aggression in the teardown and some of the gambles he's made - which you have to do if you want to find some diamonds in the rough in Detroit. After all, we aren't attracting guys that are already All-Stars in Detroit. But at the same time I'm not seeing how what he's doing translates to what he and the organization are saying they're trying to do. I also worry that the "playoff" talk is being pushed down from Gores, which could spell disaster with all the money we have this offseason.

You also saw it in my post two spots up from your post 😄

I was on vacation, but I've definitely got some thoughts on this whole thing... Bey: I'm fine with the Pistons moving him. I've been getting more and more frustrated with his play lately as many of you have seen me comment. Selfish, inefficient, a shooter who can't shoot, a wing who can't defend, and his numbers have regressed every year. As a rookie we all thought he'd be a 3 and D role player that would develop into a Jae Crowder or (hopefully) Middleton type. Turns out he wanted to be way more than that to the detriment of all those around him. Something I like to call "Drummond Disease" or "DD" for short, but better know as a lack of self awareness. I said previously that this team was going to need to move players to make space for draft picks and free agents that will help them compete because player development alone wasn't going to cut it. Cade/Ivey/Duren are where we're investing our future, and that only leaves the wing where they can make improvements. So, this was inevitable. Wiseman: I'm curious to see Wiseman in a pick and roll system. He has a lot of tools, but he's played less minutes than Duren so far in his career, 1/3rd of the minutes that Killian has played, and is just 21 (to Saddiq's 23). There's still room for growth and he should get plenty of opportunity here. I also don't agree with those saying we don't need a Center. Noel obviously isn't getting played and may be bought out. Bagley is (always) hurt. So, all you have is Stew backing up Duren. Have you been watching the Stew at Center travesty this season? He's too small on defense and has bad hands in the paint on offense. Your only hope is that he figures that 3 point shot out and can become a bench PF and situational Center like Grant Williams. That Cleveland game was probably the straw that broke the camel's back for Weaver, and I can't blame him for that - we looked like a middle school team playing against a college team. We absolutely need a backup Center and if they can get that out of Wiseman, then I'm happy with the return. At the end of the day, you're swapping a bench Wing for a bench Center. Let's not inflate the value of a wing who can't play defense or shoot and couldn't keep his starting spot on one of the worst teams in the league. All I need Wiseman to become is a good bench Center and he'll have more value - or at least less negative value - than Bey at the wing. Weaver: However, I do agree that Weaver's seat is getting much warmer with the fans. The vision and identity of the team he's building is questionable at best. I think fans are ok with being bad during a rebuild, but we're all struggling to see what he's building towards. He says he wants defense but he's collected a team full of bad defenders. This is going to be a big offseason for him, especially if he doesn't get bailed out by landing the #1 or #2 pick. And nobody wants to see him spend that 50M+ on the equivalent of Charlie V, Ben Gordon, or Josh Smith in this bad free agent market. It's definitely going to be interesting.

More reports coming out that Bojan is untouchable. This is either next level chess, or they haven't received the offers they wanted and now the organization is covering their tracks to make it look good. No other explanation makes sense. You don't keep a 34 year old who's having the best offensive season of his life but can't defend his way out of paper bag when you're in the Piston's situation...unless you can't get enough solid assets in return. Regardless, if true, then you've got to move Bey. You can't go into next season with the worst defensive wing rotation in the NBA and expect to "compete" for anything but a lotto spot. They're locked into the development of their Guards and Center, so the 3-4 is the only place they have to make a significant upgrade and that means making space for that upgrade while collecting assets. If you come back with the same team (+Cade and a rookie) expecting to compete through development alone you're going to be sorely disappointed.

Duren and Ivey made the Rising Star challenge for All-Star weekend. Can we get back to back Rising Stars MVPs?

Yes, the wing in general needs work. It's a 2-way wing league and we don't have those. Bogie is a nice scorer (if he stays), but he gives up as much as he gets on the other end as one of the worst defenders in the league. If he's staying you're going to need a superstar defender at the other Forward position, along with Duren continuing to make good strides as a defender, and these guards finding a way to show some pride on defense. You just can't have 4 bad defenders out there at once.

That was the most selfish play I've ever seen on a basketball court. Nope, not from Luka, who plays a brand of basketball that seems to get more and more like Harden every day. I'm talking about Bey. Down 2 with the chance to tie it and you can't make the most obvious dump off pass in the history of basketball to Duren who's standing under the rim? Instead you go up with an awkward, contested off-hand shot and then Dallas goes the other way and scores. Game over. Also, we need to talk about how Stew at Center just doesn't work - even off the bench. His only chance in this league is to play primarily at PF. Too small, can't jump, can't set a screen, can't catch the ball in the paint, terrible finisher in the paint. Don't tell me Noel can't play 13 minutes a game behind Duren at backup Center so we can give the Stew/Duren lineup a legitimate chance for 20 games to see where that goes. Sounds weird to say it, but this team missed Hami's brand of chaos last night.

All records going forward need an asterisk to indicate that they were earned in the NDE (No Defense Era) of basketball.

Reports coming out that the Pistons are probably going to keep Bojan: https://pistonpowered.com/2023/01/30/detroit-pistons-rumors-bojan-bogdanovic/ Could just be trying to drive the price up, but these are Bogie's words, so that seems unlikely.

But are they on par with Houston lacking their 3 best players? That's the real question here 😄

Most perplexing thing about this game is Casey changing the lineup "to compete." Then we come out and lose to the worst team in the league without their 3 best players on the court. Laughable. Maybe bench the coach? First, what are we competing for with the second worst record in the league? Shouldn't this be a development year? If it wasn't, it certainly is by now. Second, how is starting Bey and Bogey at the forward positions considered competing anyway? That's literally the worst defensive forward combination in the entire league by a wide margin. Third, what happened to the Stew+Duren lineup we were supposed to run out this year? Now Casey has Stew at Center fulltime and it just even more glaring how out of position he is at Center after seeing Duren in there. He was starting to show promise in growing into the Grant Williams-type PF role. Don't tell me it's because they don't have another Center - they do. Also, there's a thing called staggering lineups. Stew played only 21 minutes. Duren played only 27. These guys are 21 and 19 years old. Even if you refuse to play Noel, there's no reason those two can't play 30+ minutes and share the court more. Fourth, back to Casey's inability to stagger a lineup. Killian's coming off the bench again even though you just got his confidence up and he was seemingly turning a corner over the past couple of months. Now he's off the bench only getting 25 minutes while Burks and Bogey get 30+? Go check his numbers in games where he plays over 30 mpg - 15.7 ppg, 8.1 ast, 4 reb, 45% fg, 36% 3pt, 54 TS. Not bad for a guy most of us had given up on at the start of the year. If Casey is bad at lineups, bad at offensive schemes, bad at defensive schemes, bad at in-game strategy, then why is he the guy? Development? Take a look at these young guys not even getting 30 mpg, trying to function in broken offensive and defensive systems, clearly tuning out the coach, regressing on both ends of the court, and now getting benched for questionable reasons - tell me how he's developing players again? Tell me how he's not instilling a culture here that's hurting development? Show me the games where they're outhustling the other teams on both ends even though they're losing. Show me a Casey team that has overperformed expectations rather than under-performed them.

Young guys played well and we got the win. Definitely a fun watch. Plus, I love beating the Nets.

That was impressive, but you gotta be willing to take the poster every now and then if you're going to be a defender/shot-blocker.

Yep, it was painful. Killian was really bad, nobody could hit a 3, and the defense was the usual 30pt per quarter open lane to the bucket. Also, Casey decided to start Stew at Center again even though Duren was back (hopefully it was just a minutes restriction), and it looked really bad (again). Casey also loves to start both Bogie and Bey in that lineup, which we all know is a train wreck defensively. On a positive note, Hami has been playing really well since Bagley's been out and they've been using him as a PF (mostly). He's undersized for it, but the playstyle suits his skillset way better and he's been able to be effective in the dunker spot, setting screens, cutting, and beating his man down the court as opposed to standing at the 3pt line where we all know he can't shoot. Took 2 years and multiple injuries for Casey to be forced into figuring out what we all knew from day 1 about Hami's playstyle.

Yeah, pretty much that.

I think they knew that the odd, compacted schedule required for this travel game wasn't going to impact either of these team's playoffs hopes, so no issues there.

I'm guessing it's the same stuff that's going on in Detroit. Guy's not playing as a team, playing for their stats, not playing defense, etc.

The Knicks own us. If they played us 82 games they'd be 82-0. Didn't help that we were missing some players, but I think we know the outcome would've been the same. Nice to see Bey starting to shoot better from three...and right on queue his 2pt % is now falling off.

Shai is 24 years old, in his 5th NBA season. Cade is 21 years old, in his 2nd NBA season...which he is missing due to injury.

For me, the jury is still out on Weaver. I like a lot of what he did to quickly reboot that roster I hated a few years ago. Since then, he's done a lot of good things and also some confusing things. The best thing he's done might simply be fixing the cap situation. It's all about finding that superstar to build around and they have the ability to move in a number of directions due to the cap flexibility they have as well as the high draft pick coming this offseason. I also think he's made solid use of his draft picks, even though it's tough to call that so early in these player's career. There are things we can question in hindsight, but overall I think he's beaten the odds on that front. The current roster construction is questionable at best, but I don't think this is anywhere near the finished product. You're not locked into any of these players. This offseason is key. What happens with the draft and what happens with the cap space? If you land your 1A, then you can really start looking at roster construction and assembling a team to compete. Until then it's just a game of moving around assets and keeping things flexible until you find that core. The question is how many more years do you give Weaver to find that core player(s)? Cade is probably 1 of them, but I'm not sure he's the 1A. My bigger problem is with the coaching and system on both sides of the ball. I think it's hurting the development of the youngsters, teaching them to play selfish ball, and just making this an unwatchable product. If Casey has a front office role carved out for him as many have suggested, then it's on Weaver to make that happen at the end of this year. If he doesn't, then that's going to be a big vote against Weaver for me.

Considering they just announced that he got an extension, I don't see this happening. Doesn't mean your point isn't valid, just not likely. I'm just glad that Casey is starting to get more national media attention as a large part of the issue. Both the offense and the defense are broken. Here's the latest pod from Vecinie clearly calling out Casey as someone who needs to go "by the end of the year" (the 4:30 mark of the video):

Troy has already flipped the whole team once, but I don't think he's willing to do that with the team he created. It definitely wouldn't be a good look for him.

I'm honestly starting to question Bey's long term viability as part of this core. No point in selling low right now, but this season (and his three year trend) is not going in the right direction on either side of the ball.

Zero interest in Myles Turner for all the reasons Del mentioned already. The NBA is a 2-way wing league and this team has none. That's what you need to spend your money on.