Betrayer

Killian went from looking lost in the 1st half to having his best quarter as a pro in the 4th. I saw some things from him offensively that I've never seen before - things that could be considered "flashes" of what he could be with some impressive driving finishes at the basket and even a dunk in traffic. Grant is not helping his trade value. He's not looking like someone who will command a 1st and a young player in return. I'm increasingly concerned about his desire to be a top option on a team. It's hurting his trade value, especially when teams are seeing him perform like he did yesterday with drives that end in turnovers or bad shots and, of course, his patented long range two pointers. I hope we trade him before he demands an extension, but either way he needs some self awareness. Kelly continues to look bad. That signing - and what it cost us to get rid of Plumlee to make it happen - continue to look like a bad move from Weaver. We could really have used Plumlee's size, rebounding, and pick and roll threat this year and we wouldn't have had to give up any assets to get it. Bey with another nice game, playing a key role in a close loss. Also, I hate Patrick Beverly.

The numbers would indicate a close race for RoY between the two, but the media hasn't caught up to what Cade has been doing and the Cavs are having a lot of surprise success as a team so that's gaining Mobley more attention. Plus, he came out of the gates hot and people start jumping on the bandwagon - now they don't want to come out and make their own premature Twitter takes look bad by saying Cade could be RoY.

Who knows what they will look like in 3 years, but Mobley has much better players around him that allow him to do what he does best. Cade is literally doing everything for this team and the opponents know it. At this point, I'd still have taken Cade #1 overall.

Yep, that's the exactly the type of stuff I'm talking about. People just haven't caught up yet.

Cade's not really getting the respect league-wide yet. It's a case of nobody watching the team, so perception is lagging behind reality. They came up with their narrative on Cade after he struggled during the first 30 days and it'll take them another month or two to catch up to where he's at now. I've heard a number of views from outside of Detroit media in the past couple of weeks that feel like takes from October - word has not spread and they aren't paying attention to this team at all.

https://www.detroitbadboys.com/2022/1/25/22901378/nba-trade-rumors-john-collins-jerami-grant-detroit-pistons-atlanta-hawks If the Hawks truly are interested in finding a new home for Collins and they're calling about Grant, we need to find a way to get this done. We couldn't find a better fit for Cade than Collins and I think he'd pair well with either a spacing Center (Kelly) or a rebounding shot blocker (Mitchell Robinson as a FA). Add Ivey in the draft rather than going after one of those big men and all of a sudden you've flipped the athleticism story for this team on its head. ATL will want more than Grant, but I can't imagine it's too far off. They could really use his defense and ability to score more than they can use Collins rim running (remember, they already have Capella to fill that role). CoJo has been increasing his trade value as a toss in, so he could be a valuable asset for ATL when Young is resting. JJ, Frank Jackson, Stew, Hayes...I'd do what I had to do to make this move. Cade, Bey, and maybe Hami are the only untouchables in my opinion. A lineup of Cade, Ivey, Bey, Collins, and Olynyk could make some serious noise next year. I don't like paying Centers a ton, but they may even consider tossing the bank at Ayton at that point because that would be a pretty deadly young core. I still like the PWilliams deal as well and it'd be a tough call for me if they were both on the table.

Agreed about Grant. There's no better time to move him than now. I don't hate that Minnesota offer, but I don't love it either. The pick is one of the better ones you'd get, since most other interested parties will be true contenders, but the player return isn't as strong as a Patrick Williams. I also think this offseason is the right time to move Casey into a development front office role. Let him do what he does best, which is help the locker room by teaching young kids to become men and develop them. He's done a fabulous job of that and it's the one thing I give him a ton of credit for. On the other hand, I want him off the court. He's a terrible X and Os coach, his offensive sets are simplistic three man basketball, there's little movement of players or the ball, and it's reliant on isolation basketball. He also is a terrible in-game strategist and has no clue how to put players in the best positions to succeed on the court based upon their particular skill sets. We watch teams like Denver and Golden State zip the ball around and talk about how much fun it is, but we'll never have an offense like that with Casey at the helm. I only bring that up because you mentioned Grant's isolations - some of that is on Grant, but I think a lot of it is on Casey as well. We're just happy now because we're seeing Cade and Bey iso's instead of Grant and they usually do better things with their iso than shoot a 19 footer - but the plays are the same and they're easy to defend. There's a reason Casey won Coach of the Year the same year that Nick Nurse arrived to fix the offense - Toronto fans will be happy to tell you all about their love/hate relationship with Casey.

Heck of a game by Cade in a competitive loss. It was a lot of fun to watch him just take over. These are the types of losses I like to see this year, not the 30 point blowouts. Great to see Cade continuing to improve and we're not even at the All Star break yet. This team needs a real Center so bad. Watching Cade do all this damage while having both defenders crowd him after the pick is painful. His stat-line would've been even more impressive with a lob threat out there. I've been calling for having Killian run the bench unit, so I hope that's the plan going forward rather than just these couple of games due to the hip injury. He was supposed to be a pick n roll maestro and a great passer - we won't see that with him in the starting lineup alongside Cade. Let's let him run the bench unit and see what we have by year end. We already know he's a very good defender. Does he just become a bust, does he improve his shooting and fall into the Lonzo Ball 3 and D PG archetype, or does he he improve his ball skills and fall into the Ricky Rubio archetype? That's what we need to know going into the offseason.

I wouldn't do it. I'd rather hold Grant and try to move him this offseason than take a deal for Turner. On the plus side, he's 2 years younger than Grant and the Pistons need a competent Center who can block shots. However, you have the same contract issue with both of them. They'll want a big payday in 1.5 years (or an extension this summer) that the Pistons are trying to avoid since they aren't ready to compete now. Plus, I wouldn't tie up 30M/yr in a Center in today's NBA. If you watched last season's playoffs you saw a lot of bigs - even top guys like Gobert and Ayton - sitting on the bench for long periods when teams spread the court on them. Great in the regular season, but bigs are getting exposed in the playoffs these days. He's also not a good rebounder for his position and size (6.7 per game). He's not a rim runner, preferring to step out and take that three - which he's below average at (33%), even though he takes 4 a game. He also has recent injury issues that are concerning when you're talking about a big man's feet/legs. I want the same thing Weaver wants - a young prospect and a 1st rounder. I'm looking at guys like Patrick Williams, Wiseman, Kuminga, Collins, Anfernee Simmons, Okongwu, etc.

The deal was obviously not true since we can't trade a first anyway, but even if it could have been true in some alternate reality I wouldn't have touched it with a 10' pole. Grant, Bey, and a first rounder? That's going in the opposite direction for a rebuilding team. No way he's worth that, his contract is terrible, he can't shoot, and he's a diva. If you asked to trade Grant for Simmons straight up I'd say no and wouldn't think twice - he's the opposite of what this team needs.

Agreed. I believe they did this because he was coming back from injury, but I hope they keep it this way and leave either CoJo or Frank (when he returns) in the starting lineup alongside Cade. Let him play the remaining 40 games leading the bench unit, running the pick n roll, defending at a high level without worry of fouls, and without starter pressure. By the end of the year we'll have a better feel for what we have with him than if we just keep sticking him in the corner every play on a team where the corner defender doesn't need to collapse because our Center isn't a threat on the pick and roll.

For me it's probably Ivey followed by Jabari, but it's early and there's more research to be done. This team desperately needs an athletic creator and Ivey ticks that box big time. I've seen comparisons to Ja Morant, Mitchell, DWade, and JRich. He's also shooting 43% from three this year and is a high level perimeter defender. He'd be a great fit in the backcourt next to Cade. If we can get Patrick Williams in the Grant trade then it's easy enough to go grab a rim running big in free agency. Your Center doesn't need to be an All-Star - I don't believe in spending big money on a Center in today's NBA. He just needs to be able to do what Javale McGee did to us the other day. Mitchell Robinson would do fine.

Tough one to watch with all the foul calls. Feels like most of the game was spent watching free throws, and watching Cade sit on the bench in foul trouble. But Kelly made a big difference in the game and Bey was on fire! Nice win in the clutch.

Montiejunas looks like even more of an idiot with his crying on Twitter about how Detroit is ruining NBA careers by failing physicals on trades.

15pts is "went off" now?

I’d take a flyer on him for JJ, but honestly I wouldn’t make any minor moves until the Grant trade gets done. You may need those smaller contracts to make the deal work and that’s the far more important trade.

Hami has been big for this team in their recent success. He simply brings something nobody else does with his elite athleticism and ability to attack. I just don’t understand Casey’s reluctance to play him the 4th - last night I watched the lead whittle away while Hami rode the pine until the 2:50 mark in the 4th, even though he was clearly one of the biggest difference makers in creating the lead. Same thing the other night. Also, once again the team was better with a big man who is an offensive threat on the floor. It was to our benefit that Stew got into foul trouble. should we start talking about the 6-10 pick? This recent winning is nice, but…

Collins can be traded after January 14th, which is coming up...now. But again, that was me wishing. I don't see Atlanta moving him.

This 100%. And they need that same guy for rim protection and competent rebounding on the other end too.

Totally agree. I don't like Lyles at all. Which is why it infuriates me even more that they look better with him on the court than Stew. This team needs a competent pick n' roll big in a bad way.

The Chicago deals I've been hearing similar to this one make the most sense. They're in "win-now" mode with DeRozan. Not a fan of most of the trades on the Athletic. The NYK trade is decent. The Washington trade is 'meh'. I want Anfernee + Covington if we're trading with Portland, not Powell and definitely not McLemore. Lakers can GTFO with that garbage. Atlanta might still be able to put together a nice package for Grant. I'd take those first round picks, Okongwu, and Gallinari (for salary match). I'd also be interested in a package if it involved Collins, but I doubt they let him go. Golden State is another team I'd talk to. Wiseman and Kuminga are both interesting young prospects and they have a closing window that's not long enough for those kids to make an impact. Grant, on the other hand, can be huge for them on both ends immediately. After losing their last two games to playoffs teams (Bucks and Grizz), they might be ripe for a discussion. Phoenix is also in win-now mode with Chris Paul's tiny window. I want Cam Johnson in that trade. Saric would probably have to come back for salaries, plus some other stuff in that deal to make it work. Sadly Phoenix doesn't have a pick to trade. I've heard Boston discussed by those who theorize that they're ready to give up on the Tatum/Brown pairing. Obviously, I'd do almost anything to get Brown, but I don't see that happening. Swapping firsts this year might sweeten the pot, but they'd still want more than just Grant. However, if you can pull that off, then suddenly the window changes. You throw all your money at Ayton in the offseason and you've got a core (Cade, Brown, Ayton) that can start making noise immediately next year.

Also, Cam Reddish got moved to the Knicks. So, a lot of the trade rumors out there about the Pistons going after Cam in a Grant trade are off the table. However, some are speculating that Atlanta may have collected that extra first round pick from the Knicks in order to do a subsequent trade...Grant maybe?

I think Hayes with the starters is hurting his own development, but Stew with the starters is hurting everyone else's. At least 3 of Cade's turnovers in the Bulls game were due to Stew's bad hands and inability to be a vertical threat. Both Cade and Killian were touted as tremendous pick and roll players, but between Coach Casey's terrible "dribble-hand-off into an iso" offense and Stew's lack of ability to be the roll guy when they do try the pick and roll, you've got a developmental mess out there in the starting lineup. There's a reason why this team has looked so much better on the offensive end when Lyles is out there with the starters, and it's not because Lyles is a good player. It's simply because he's at least a mediocre threat to score.

Such a fun game to watch after a really slow start out of the gate. Cade and Bey leading the charge. Diallo was playing well so I was a bit confused about JJ taking his minutes to finish the 4th, but maybe they're trying to move him before the deadline and need to give him some extra time. Probably need to address the elephants in the room: Hayes and Stew. Time to move Hayes to the bench to run that unit. I was hopeful with his 3pt percentage early on, but he's just a non-factor out there 90% of the time. Maybe running the second unit with less pressure can make him more aggressive. Any of Frank, Saben, or CoJo would be better with the starters. As for Stew, this team is just better with someone on the court who can be a factor on the offensive end or a threat in the pick and roll. Whether that's Lyles or Kelly (when he comes back), it may be time to move Stew to the bench unit as well. I think that's where he belongs long-term anyway. He's got a great heart, but he's limited simply due to his size, lack of offensive skill, and lack of athleticism.

Everything I've heard over the past few weeks is saying exactly the opposite of this. That his value is still sky high and that many teams are calling about him. There are legitimate sources, such as James Edwards III, reporting this.