NYLion

It seems  like the Lions are showing their true colors today. Yikes

20 hours ago, Sports_Freak said:

I would be surprised if the Rams win another game. At home against Denver then finish the season on the road, at the Chargers and then at Seattle. Our pick from them might be in the top three? The bad part is, we may need to root for them to beat Seattle.

Apparently Wilson is playing in the Rams game. Not sure if that's a good thing or not.  It's going to be tough for the Rams to win either of the last two games even with Seattle freefalling so this Denver game is huge for draft position, to say the least.

It could be an interesting dilemma in the final week between rooting for a playoff spot or better draft position depending on how things shake out. Obviously playoffs is the higher priority but it'll just be interesting to see where positioning stands at this point.

On 12/18/2022 at 2:29 PM, Sports_Freak said:

Maybe we won't win the Super Bowl? But if we did, you would find SOMETHING to complain about. 

Just reading through the thread and amen to this post. A hotly contested road battle against a tough defense and all that guy does is complain constantly. It's poison to my eyes reading his posts on game day.

11 hours ago, buddha said:

anyone with any knowledge of lions history (or league history) should be wary of this team winning 2 of 3 on the road to clinch a playoff spot.

Just enjoy the ride. Personally, I'm putting that SOL mentality on the backburner and am just living in the moment with this team with complete disregard for what happened the last 60+ years of completely different teams that have no bearing on how this current group will do.

With that said, I can understand why some Lions fans would have PTSD from the past and be skeptical still.

2 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said:

I'm not sure how a 4 way tie with for 2 spots are going to work which I believe would happen if they tie.

Conference record which the Lions have over the 3 other teams I believe.

58 minutes ago, Sports_Freak said:

And Seattle plays in K.C. and then Jets and Rams at home. We may be rooting for the Rams. 

Giants play at the Vikings, home against Indy and then at Philadelphia. 

Lions could win out and still not make it, in theory. But they could always lose one and still get in, in theory.

Very unlikely that they win out and aren't in. That would mean that two of the three teams ahead of them swept their games. Next week alone, all of the Giants, Commanders and Seahawks are going to be big underdogs against Minny, San Fran and K.C. respectively. They could all easily lose those games and the Lions would control their destiny if they beat Carolina on Saturday.

19 minutes ago, 1984Echoes said:

Why didn't they do that LAST week...?

Riiight?  The Lions would have the #3 pick right now and be clear of that 4-5 win cluster if the Raiders didn't Raider against the Rams. 

16 minutes ago, lordstanley said:

Really? I was thinking of cheering for the Giants. Given their schedules and given that I think NYG is a bit better team, I more like the chances of the Commanders losing at least one of their final 3 games. 

The Commanders are playing better ball than the Giants. The one issue is that the Giants play the Eagles the last game which will likely mean nothing to them so that could be a problem.

Either way, if the Lions win out they should be in so just keep winning but to give a little room for error if the Lions lose one, we should root for Washington tonight because I think the Giants losing 2 more is more likely.

5 minutes ago, mtutiger said:

Bigger picture, they really need the Commanders to win tonight. Both the Hawks and Giants will have their hands full with the Chiefs and Jags next week 

Yep. Commanders or a tie, believe it or not, is what we should be rooting for.

Huge character win for these young guys, these are the type of games they're going to have to play in order to take the next step in their development winning on the road when they aren't at their best. 

Great win obviously but they have to do something about this secondary either by scheme or personnel because they lose WAY too many deep 50/50 balls, almost every single time. They need to tighten that up because the defense is playing well otherwise.

1 hour ago, Motown Bombers said:

I hope the Lions don't complete break the Jets. We need them to beat Seattle. I think 9 wins can get in. For 9 wins to make it, Seattle 1st needs to go 1-2. Very doable. 

Seattle: KC, NYJ, LAR. They can easily lose to KC and NYJ. Seattle is fading fast.

New York and Washington play each other. One or the other needs to go 1-3. I think It's more likely New York does. They lose to Washington. That means 1-2 against Minnesota, Indianapolis, and Philadelphia. I can see them losing to the Vikings and Eagles. Even if the Eagles are resting players, they can't rest everyone and that is a deep team. We will also want to root for Dallas so that final game against the Giants has meaning.

These are scenarios are if the Lions go 3-1. If they go 4-0, Seattle would need to win out. The Giants would need to also win out if they lose to Washington. Bottom line, Lions are probably 99% favorites to make the playoffs if they win and the Lions have the easiest schedule of all these teams. 

The best outcome this weekend would be for the Giants and Commanders to tie again (believe it or not) or a Commanders win because of the tough remaining schedule for the Giants, the Lions win the tiebreaker if they go 9-8 and the Giants and Commanders go 8-7-2 and if it's a 3 way tie with Seattle also going 9-8, the Lions would win that tiebreaker because of conference record so a tie or Washington win is what we should root for in that game.

I'm having a hard time envisioning the Lions winning all 3 road games in December conditions so I'm looking at the path at 9-8. 10-7 and the Lions will almost certainly be in I'd think.

20 minutes ago, Hongbit said:

I think we both agree here.  Again, I never said he was a fraud and his early success was 100% McVey.   He’s always been a quality QB and he’s proving that again here without the Rams.  

That's fair. I thought you were insinuating that he's a product of McVay.

23 minutes ago, Hongbit said:

How?      Maybe if I said Goff was trash at the Rams but I never said that.  He was good in LA but he benefited greatly from SMV’s new offense which played a big part in his robust stats.   

He's playing the best football of his career right now away from McVay. In fact, he started playing good football right around the time Lynn was fired and they starting allowing him to throw a pass past 5 yards so it's a larger sample size more than just this season.

Sure, there's no doubt that McVay played a big part in his early career success (or Fisher was just that horrible) but that has little to do with his success now. He actually had to be "rebuilt" after the McVay teardown.

1 hour ago, Hongbit said:

McVey never unlocked his full talent and abilities.  He’d still be there if that was the case.   The Rams saw an opportunity to upgrade at QB and made the move for Stafford.    My point is that using Goff stats from those early Rams days and comparing them to Stafford’s numbers with the Lions undervalues the impact of McVey and staff during that time.   They had a lot to do with Goff’s success.   

Goff succeeding now sort of dispels that theory, the narrative that McVay is the reason for Goff's success. It's bunk.

21 minutes ago, RedRamage said:

Well, just for the fun of it, I'll beat the dead horse again.

Part of this is explained by seeing Stafford week after week and knowing that he has very good abilities and talent.  Part of it is being intimately familiar with the Lions and the coaching staff and know how inept they were.  Flip this with seeing a previous SB leading QB start to struggle.  See that QBs coaching staff and front office trying to replace him. It's easier to "give up" on a guy that you don't know all the details on.

Part of this is seeing Goff struggle at times last year, knowing that we had a sucky team, but not seeing him necessarily bring up the level of team play.  Part of this is seeing that we have now a great OL and some really good receivers and wondering if Goff's resurgence is Goff or just that great talent around him would let "any" QB win.  Part of this is seeing home/road splits that are a little scary.

All of this is just generalized feelings and I very much admit that there are details surrounding everything situation I discussed above.  But putting this all together makes me feel: "I'm not 100% sold on Goff, yet." I'm also not calling for a us to draft a QB in the first round next year to replace Goff either... at least not yet.  The next 4 games will be important for me.

I don't disagree with any of that. I'd also add the factor of Stafford being the homegrown product compared to Goff being "thrown aside" by his former team so it'll take more for Goff to be in the good graces of Lions fans. Also, Stafford has that dynamic to his game with the arm talent and propensity for late game heroics that endeared him to a good portion of the Lions fanbase so I get it.

I guess I'm just saying that if you look at their career results, in a vacuum, there's some striking similarities. Of course this doesn't take into account other factors like the ones you've touched on already but I'm just saying that Goff probably deserves a little more leeway because of a proven track record of success at a high level.

With all that said, I was one of the vocal Goff detractors last season but he's starting to win me over so I've almost done a complete 180 in becoming a vocal supporter of his. I also want this regime to work out really badly, moreso than ever in my Lions fandom, because they're all from coaches to players very easy guys to root for.

In Goff's case, I feel like he's become somewhat of an underdog story (which sounds weird because he's a former #1 overall, two time pro bowler, near SB champion) who has gotten an unfair shake from the media I feel so it makes it easier to root for him to overcome. It also doesn't hurt that his fiance is... well.... pretty easy on the eyes lets just say. 😉

23 minutes ago, RedRamage said:

Yes and no... I mean there were definitely some little "extras" thrown in like "Well, if you're unsatisfied with Goff because of his trajectory then you should have also been unhappy about Stafford because his is similar."

My general point is that they've had a similar career path so I just find it interesting that a lot of those who stuck by Stafford through thick and thin aren't doing the same with Goff. 

FTR, I agree with you that there are reasons to not be completely sold on Goff as THE guy going forward. I'm just saying that isn't far fetched to compare the careers of Stafford and Goff at this point in their development.

11 hours ago, 1984Echoes said:

I don't mind Bojan & Burks putting up big numbers for the Pistons, regardless whether it's a win or a loss... I think those guys can teach the kids how to make winning plays/ shots/ etc.

Where it gets gratifying is when the kids play a really nice game too, so, I know the Hornets are at the bottom with us, but it's nice to see good games from Killian, Stewart, Duren, and even Knox contribute to getting a win (and not just Bojan & Burks...).

 

 

 

 

Keep in mind about the Hornets that this was Lamelo's first game back from injury so it was against a healthy Hornets team, not the team they've been all season, and Lamelo looked like he didn't skip a beat although he sat in the OT.

Regardless, it seems like Hayes and Stewart have taken a step forward in their development which is all we can ask for this season. Would be nice if Bey was more consistent though but he never really has been.

15 hours ago, buddha said:

people think goff and stafford are similar because the people on this board pay attention to the lions and goff and stafford are lions qbs.

stafford is a guy with a million dollar gun for an arm.  goff doesnt have that and is much more of a game manager type.  they are not really similar qbs.

and as we all know, the rams got rid of goff because he couldnt go downfield like stafford, or the rams felt he didnt go downfield like stafford.

We're talking about career trajectory, not the style of QB. I thought that was made clear, no?

2 hours ago, Hongbit said:

You use Matthew Stafford as a baseline and compare everyone to him.  It also helps if you constantly regurgitate stats from 2017 & 2018. 

Well, their careers have taken some very similar trajectories. It's not like Goff is being compared to Brady.

Both were picked #1, both struggled mightily in their rookie season then vaulted to Pro Bowl level early in their career then hit a dip in Years 4-6 only to have a comeback season in Year 7. The similarities in terms of career trajectory, not style of play, are strikingly similar and is worthy of comparison especially since there were so many here who defended Stafford for years and are skeptical of Goff now.

FTR, I'm not completely sold on Goff either but he has the pedigree and a proven track record of success so why can't he be the QB of the future? I'm not entirely convinced he has but he does have the track record to think that maybe he could be.

1 hour ago, RedRamage said:

I was browsing around on the Jets sub reddit and I saw a stat that gave me pause regarding Goff:  He has some pretty horrendous home and away splits:

Home: 277 yards/game, 2.5 TDs/game, 0.375 INTs/game
Away: 227 yards/game, 0.4 TDs/game, 0.8 INTs/game

Now, I know there are LOTS of factors that come into play here besides just home vs. away (For example: injuries to receiving, having to play from behind with a poor defense... both things that have improved since the beginning of the season and we played more road games earlier).  But the differences seemed rather pronounced.

I'm NOT saying a Goff isn't an answer moving forward, but I'm going to be real interested to see how he performs  over the next stretch with 3 away games.  If the splits continue with Goff dropped off significantly when away from Ford Field, that might change my feeling on how important drafting a QB is.

 

Those stats need a lot of context.

LEts examine the road games after New England in particular when everybody was a disaster...

The Dallas game he was playing with practice squad receivers, literally none of them would be in the starting rotation when healthy (remember St. Brown got hurt early in that game). He did make a couple of poor decisions in that game regardless. Not a good game.

He played solid, mistake free ball against the Bears and engineered a long TD drive in the clutch. Still down a few receivers btw.

Giants game. I don't think it showed in the stats but I thought he played a solid game. He didn't need to do much because they were frontrunning most of the game and made some critical throws to my recollection.

There's a couple of factors that limited him on the road. Lots of injuries to skilled position players and game management. He's clearly playing better at home especially now that the receivers got healthy on this homestand and they've opened up the playbook more but he's been just fine on the road since the New England game. Not dynamic but good enough to win. This will be the first road game all season that he'll have his full compliment of receivers so it'll be interesting to see if they open it up a bit.

21 hours ago, buddha said:

shams in the athletic reporting the lakers want bogdonavic and are willing to give up a first for him (in like 2027...).  pistons have multiple suitors that will likely have better offers.

reportedly weaver doesnt want to move him.  since that comes from jeiii i assume its from weaver and i hope (and also assume) its a smokescreen.

What's the point of moving him for a pick that far into the future and a protected one at that? Unless they parlay it for something more immediate, like they did with the 2025 Portland pick in the Duren trade, then I'd rather just hold on to Bogdanovic for another year. They're going to need to start winning at some point so they need good vets next season, he's a high level locked up at reasonable dollars.

Burks is the more likely trade bait anyway. Maybe they could get a couple of 2nds for him. Diallo is another guy I could see being on the way out.

30 minutes ago, Motor City Sonics said:

Because with one more loss, Arizona is done.     We can root for Arizona when they play the Rams. 

The Lions can't afford any more losses so the teams behind them are irrelevant. Arizona is done regardless, time to root for the 4-5 win teams to win games for the sake of a higher pick at least IMO.

1 hour ago, Motor City Sonics said:

Carolina  Panthers up in the 4th by 10

New York Giants lost

Washington  Sexual Harrassment Pandas on a bye week

 

Now, it's a rarity for me, but GO PATS !

Why are you rooting for the Pats? We should be rooting for Arizona for Rams draft pick purposes.

Great out of town results. Jaguars and Panthers win for bean benefit and Giants and Seahawks lose for playoff benefit. As good as we can ask for outside of Denver almost pulling the upset over KC.

19 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said:

Carolina up 10-0 on Seattle. That helps both playoff chances and draft position.

17-0. Big game for the Lions.