Longgone

4 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said:

Right and then in year two they can be like either take this reduced amount or try your hand at free agency. I don't particularly think it's a good way to do business. 

You are saying players, and especially agents, don't understand what the words " not guaranteed" means. It's your understanding that is off.

7 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said:

Like I said numerous times, they are establishing one and will start getting a reputation. That's four players in two years and three originally signed by Holmes. 

The fallacy in your thinking is that the renegotiating is somehow onerous, deceptive or unfair to the players. There is no basis for thinking that way, in fact, it is a good and positive indicator.

2 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said:

Like I said numerous times, they are establishing one and will start getting a reputation. That's four players in two years and three originally signed by Holmes. 

The only one getting a reputation is you.

2 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said:

Of course it applies to Harris. He signed a two year extension and was asked to renegotiate after one year, same as Cominsky. Okwara was a 3 year deal asked to renegotiate after 2 years. Vaitai was a Quinn signing so really not applicable. Surprisingly, they didn't appear to ask Walker to take a pay cut. That indicates to me they still wanted those other players around and didn't want Walker around regardless of salary. 

So, you admit, there's no pattern.

9 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said:

The Lions are establishing a pattern of giving players a two year deal when the market says one and making that 2nd year a big one and then coming back a year later and using their leverage to get you to take a lower salary. Interestingly enough, they didn't do this to the big boys who under performed like Goff in 2021.

What pattern, that doesn't apply to Harris, Vatai or Okwara at all, and they did renegotiate Goff.

Just now, Motown Bombers said:

Like I've said many times now, if the Lions keep signing players to contracts and ask them to renegotiate a year later or get cut, players are going to bypass the Lions. I can see the same thing happening with Amik Robertson. He has a big 2nd year on his contract. 

If the Lions had simply cut those players, like most teams do, you wouldn't have given two thoughts about it. But because they worked out a mutually beneficial arrangement, you somehow find it offensive. 

8 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said:

You keep playing hardball like that and you're going to get a reputation. Ironically, that's what Quinn and Patricia said to players like Slay who didn't buy into their program. 

It's not hardball, it's simply a negotiation. If Cominsky, Vatai and Okwara didn't have any problem with it, why should you? If they had a problem with it, they surely would have declined and entered the free market as many others have.

Just now, Motown Bombers said:

I'm just saying if the Lions continue to do it they will get a reputation. 

And I'm just saying that you are way off base.

2 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said:

Yes, they spent it and then asked players to give it back. 

And no one but you has any problem at all with that.

13 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said:

Where in heaven's name did I say they were abusing the cap? The part of not spending is pretty evident considering they haven't spent money in 3 years now. I said there isn't any reason to renegotiate Cominsky's contract since they don't need the cap space unless they have something big up their sleeve. 

They have spent. It doesn't have to be on something big. It's not prudent to spend all your cap and hamstring yourself.

33 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said:

The NFLPA does warn their players about teams. If the Lions keep not spending, and then ask the players they do sign to pay cuts a year later while they are flush with cap space, the NFLPA will start warning players about the Lions like they used to do about the Bengals. It's weird, the Lions were criticized for recouping bonuses from Barry Sanders and Calvin Johnson that were unearned but feel it's ok to constantly ask their players to take pay cuts. 

Where in heaven's name do you get the idea that the Lions are abusing the cap and not spending? That is absurd.

44 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said:

Have the 49ers asked four players to do it in two years? 

Probably four in the last week.

6 hours ago, AlaskanTigersFan said:

Is he good?

Awesome, when healthy, which is iffy.

11 hours ago, MichiganCardinal said:

At 29, I'm surprised he didn't demand a four year deal.

He got a $48 million guarantee. That's the number to focus on. If he'd gotten a 5 year 150 million deal with 48 million guaranteed, it would sound a lot better, but wouldn't be.

3 minutes ago, 1984Echoes said:

Don't misunderstand me.

I was being glib.

These are the issues that lead my thinking on CJGJ, of which MC mentioned a couple:

1) Dude has an ego. He's going to want the chance to be a straight up starter.

2) That said... even though he came back last year after surgery, he may not be able to find a situation in which he is the automatic starter. And may be forced to take MC's 1-year prove it deal. Not a bad bet for the Lions to take if he's willing.

3) That said... I'm going to guess that the Lions are pretty high on Kerby and Iffy as the safeties, and Branch as the nickel. CJGJ can probably squeeze in there somewhere... probably quite a LOT with Kerby losing the most time there, on a guess.

4) But the 3 young Lions are... greeeeeeeeeen. Not a huge amount of starting experience. It's why I ask the question that, even though Simmons is on the downside, he isn't the better locker room guy for those 3. I don't think he has more to offer on the field than CJGJ... but I think he has more to offer the other 3 guys in the locker room, coaching them up, and being part of a rotation with them.

Just my 2 cents.

Again, not taking the glib angle here, but... The biggest question I would have is: Does CJGJ REALLY want to be here for another year, given all of the circumstances?

Who knows? And who knows if Detroit wants to meet his price. All I said was he's a good fit, can cover both safety positions and nickel.

4 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said:

This is not understood. This doesn't happen often in the NFL and the Lions are doing it way more than anyone else. On top of that, the Lions aren't even hurting for cap space and they are asking players to take pay cuts. Combined with not spending a lot on free agents and the Lions are going to get a reputation for being a cheap team. 

Other teams just cut players, like Green Bay did with Aaron Jones. It happens all the time. Players want to stay and play in Detroit. And the Lions may not spend their cap how you want them to, but they will spend it.

1 minute ago, Motown Bombers said:

Sure no one is coerced but would you want to work for an employer that hires people and then a year later says either take a pay cut or your fired? 

No, but in the NFL it's understood, you generally get an up front bonus and some guarantee, but you know the non guaranteed portion is open ended.

9 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said:

You keep signing players to contracts and then ask them a year or two later to take a pay cut and no one is going to want to sign with you. 

No one is coerced, it's a purely logical thing, a reflection on non guaranteed contracts and changing conditions.

29 minutes ago, 1984Echoes said:

Duce don't play in a rotation.

Duce not shy about letting everyone know that.

Duce ain't perfect for this team.

You are way too sensitive about what someone says. He's always been like that and the Lions have no issues with it. 

21 minutes ago, 1984Echoes said:

I don't really like the idea of CJGJ re-signing. Not at all... to be honest.

I really LOVE the idea of the Lions signing Simmons, Gilmore, Zeitler, and Danna (oh, and Josh Reynolds too).

I think the locker room leadership those guys could provide would be immense. Along with what we've already got. Oh... and they would all be the key backups (or starter at LG for Zeitler) at their position too...

Actually, Duce is perfect for this team. Simmons, Gilmore, Zietler are all fading. 

49 minutes ago, Mr.TaterSalad said:

My expectation going into free agency was that we would be out on all of the "big" names. I thought we'd be more aggressive on days 2, 3, and beyond. I expect us to be looking at someone like Stephon Gilmore today as another nice signing to shore up the CB position. I could also see us being in on a starting veteran Guard at the right price. So if we signed a veteran like Dalton Risner or Kevin Zietler I wouldn't be at all surprised. I also expect a depth signing or two at the DT spot. I expect Josh Reynolds to be back on a 2-3 year deal with a voidable third year option as well.

The one name mentioned there, Chase Young, is someone I'd still be willing to take a flyer on for a 1 year prove it deal if we could get it done. But he is simply not a culture fit for them and so it won't happen.

DJ Reader is the only one I'd get too excited about, if healthy, and that's a big if.

7 hours ago, Jason_R said:

I’ve seen that said here but nowhere else. Sportrac says pick 72. I hope they are wrong. 

Who are you going to trust, us or ****ing Spotrac.

26 minutes ago, Jason_R said:

Exactly the kind of guy we have come to expect Brad Holmes to acquire via trade or FA. 

Also exactly the scenario we have come to expect of him, buying low on a guy with an injury history. 

The only source I’ve seen reporting the pick number is Sportrac which says it is pick 73. So Holmes is not buying as low as I initially heard. Yes, that 73rd pick could turn into a good player, but I think they feel they are good enough that they don’t want to wait half a season for a 3rd round rookie CB to unseat the Kindle Vildors of the world. At worst Davis is a significant upgrade in Week 1 over what they were running out at CB2 last season. At best they also find a long term answer in the draft. 

It's pick 92.

1 minute ago, RandyMarsh said:

I'm not sure how the NFL compensation works but if Davis were to have a solid year and for some reason the Lions decide not to keep him and he goes elsewhere would he qualify for a comp pick? If so the Lions could recoup the pick they traded for him down the road. 

Sure, plus, as things stand, they are likely to get a 3/4 for the loss of Jackson. If they had signed a pricey cornerback instead of the trade, that would have offset that.

8 minutes ago, Mr.TaterSalad said:

Durability is apart of overall success. If injuries impact your level of play and you can't be your team's primary CB to cover another teams WR1 that could be an issue.

Name a cornerback in the NFL who doesn't get dinged up, there are damned few.