mtutiger

5 hours ago, ewsieg said:

Kind of agree, kind of don't.  Hate to see someone suffer, even if you can point back to Trump and feel like they caused it.  The fact is, political leaders of both parties and all state and all federal levels never found a good solution to help rural America when we switched to a service economy.  Trump is their riot.  A lot of republicans looked at issues with minorities and saw their riots and were fine saying "Whelp, they did it to themselves."  I suspect democrats as a whole will do the same if we do indeed see rural communities suffer more.  Would be nice if someone broke the cycle and tried to help instead of ignore.

I won't, I can tell you that right now.

And I believe whoever comes after Trump has a moral obligation to attempt to fix the crisis that he's creating here.

Ahh yes, Shylocks and bad people... definitely no antisemitism going on here lol

7 minutes ago, GalagaGuy said:

You think you're a better judge of the way things should be than the Supreme Court so why would I waste my time trying to convince you of anything?

Not sure if you're a Calvin and Hobbes guy, but their rulings remind me a lot of Calvinball at this point.

And it's a shame. Institutions, if they cared about rules (ie. The Constitution, precedent), would work to adhere to those things above all else. And they haven't. 

Your question is a fair one.... if you have a trust in an institution and someone else has lost trust in that same institution, I don't know how you resolve that.

8 minutes ago, mtutiger said:

After watching the last year, why should any of us trust the Supreme Court?

For what it's worth, and @Tiger337 knows this because of some of the arguments we have had, it pains me to ask this question. 

I am an institutionalist at heart, but man, I have a lost a lot of faith in this country since that ruling (just barely one year ago). In a lot of ways, it doesn't feel like the same country anymore. 

Just now, GalagaGuy said:

You don't believe in due process, you believe you're right about everything and flippantly dismiss court rulings you don't agree with. 

After watching the last year, why should any of us trust the Supreme Court?

Honest question. 

1 minute ago, GalagaGuy said:

To say it again, I don't believe a damn thing that Garcia says unless there is proof to back it up. 

"I believe I've already said that CECOT is most likely not a nice place to be."

What do you think CECOT is.... and explain to me why Garcia or his lawyers might be lying to me. 

Honest question, really try to convince me.

9 minutes ago, GalagaGuy said:

No idea why you care so deeply as to where a convicted child rapist spends their time but you do you I guess.

I believe in due process and believe that sending people who aren't from South Sudan to South Sudan is a bunch of bull****. Regardless of whatever the Supreme Court, of Trump v. US fame, thinks. 

9 minutes ago, GalagaGuy said:

As for Garcia, I've already commented on the things you accuse me of avoiding. 

You did, but that account was from Garcia, who you accused of lying.

Do you think Garcia's account of keeping him up past the point of exhaustion, forcing him to kneel between the hours 2100 and 0600, striking them when they fall, and denying him bathroom access / allowing themselves to soil himself was a case of him lying?

5 minutes ago, GalagaGuy said:

A reminder that being convicted of a crime is not a prerequisite for deportation. 

Deportation to ****ing South Sudan?

10 minutes ago, GalagaGuy said:

So now we're not talking about the 8 violent convicted criminals being sent to South Sudan because their own countries refuse to take them?

Them goalposts getting heavy? 

Setting aside the fact that we could easily imprison murders and rapists in our own country (because we have done it already in literally all 50 states)..............

Congratulations, you got me again, well done.

Getting back to Kilmar Abrego Garcia, why did he need to be sent to a torture prison run by a dictator in Central America exactly? And does keeping people up past the point of exhaustion, forcing them to kneel between the hours 2100 and 0600, striking them when they fall, and denying them bathroom access / allowing themselves to soil themselves seem out of character for said dictator?

You seem evasive on this question....

4 minutes ago, GalagaGuy said:

The Supreme Court never ruled that the President was immune from prosecution, they ruled that they are immune for actions taken within their official acts.  That same ruling said that they could be prosecuted for unofficial acts.    

Congratulations, you got me sir. 

5 minutes ago, GalagaGuy said:

A reminder that you're clutching your pearls over murders and rapists.   

Which murder or rape did Kilmar Abrego Garcia commit, exactly? That's news to me.

Just now, GalagaGuy said:

Well in your world not even the Supreme Court counts as due process so I guess that means no person in the country illegally can be deported, right?  You win I guess. 

1.) Do you think Donald Trump is immune from prosecution?

2.) This Supreme Court, in large part because of that particular ruling, has breached the trust that I had in it. Am I supposed to just suck it up and swallow whatever they say after that? 

Just now, GalagaGuy said:

The Supreme Court looked at the case.....

Oh well, that solves it then.... seriously, this ****ing Supreme Court? The one that gave us Trump v. US last year? 

Case closed, lol

5 minutes ago, GalagaGuy said:

Because their home countries refuse to take them.  Why are you advocating for murderers and child rapists? 

I am advocating for due process. Shipping people who commit immigration infractions who have no ties whatsoever to South Sudan to South Sudan is pretty much the opposite of that.

Aside from that, we have plenty of murderers and child rapists locked up in our own country. Is your position that we are unable to lock up murderers and child rapists who commit infractions in the United States... in the United States? I don't get your argument.

1 minute ago, Tiger337 said:

I think most people here are speaking in general about immigrants, not so much about one person here or eight peiople there.   I think most of us would agree that  some people are dangerous enough that they deserved to be deported (although nobody should be treated like an animal).  However, the deportations need to follow due process.  Also, mass deportation is potentially counterproductive.  

There have been a few reported cases of actual US citizens being deported on account of this administration.

Regardless of their tenacity, I don't know how you defend that. Yet they seem to get away with it.

2 minutes ago, GalagaGuy said:

No, we have him because swing voters looked at some of the ridiculous positions Democrats were taking and decided that the convicted felon was the better option. 

Have you considered that voters might looking at the positions that Trump is currently taking and might not like them?

See, OBBB

Just now, GalagaGuy said:

Why should they be?  

Why should people who have no ties to South Sudan whatsoever be shipped to South Sudan?

1 minute ago, GalagaGuy said:

Those 8 men being deported to South Sudan have all been convicted of serious crimes, most of them murder.  They are being sent to South Sudan because their home countries have refused to take them.

Why couldn't they be sent to Leavenworth, Kansas?

6 minutes ago, Tiger337 said:

I think it's OK to deport undocumented immigrants as well as long it's done humanely. 

This is where I lose @GalagaGuy.

I honestly have no idea whether Kilmar Abrego Garcia is the most perfect human being on the planet. But I can tell you right now that I do not support this government going and snatching people up and shipping them to foreign countries with no due process. Regardlelss of whether they are great human beings or not. 

I don't have to apporve of everything about Kilmar Abrego Garcia 100% sympathetic for me to believe that is anti-American and wrong.

5 minutes ago, GalagaGuy said:

Well I guess I'm just more in line with Republicans on this one because I don't think anyone has the right to be in the country illegally.  I don't care if you're a wanted felon or someone who overstays a student visa, you have no right to be here.   

I think you can support deporting illegal immigrants without approving of sending them to El Salvador and South Sudan and Djibouti.

3 minutes ago, GalagaGuy said:

I believe I've already said that CECOT is most likely not a nice place to be.  Does that mean I believe anything Garcia claims about it?  Absolutely not.  

To be clear, knowing the nature of the Nayib Bukele and the El Salvadorean government, does keeping people up past the point of exhaustion, forcing them to kneel between the hours 2100 and 0600, striking them when they fall, and denying them bathroom access / allowing themselves to soil themselves seem out of character?

You can guarantee to me that every single person in CECOT is not being treated this way?

11 minutes ago, mtutiger said:

If given the option of believing counsel for Kilmar Abrego Garcia or Nayib Bukele, tell me who you would believe

To be clear, there are many more individuals that we have deported to CECOT beyond Kilmar Abrego Garcia.

@GalagaGuy, does Garcia's counsel's statement seem out of line with what all CECOT deportees might be experiencing? Does that surprise you in any way shape or form given what we know about CECOT, Nayib Bukele or the current government of El Salvador?

8 minutes ago, GalagaGuy said:

I'm sure it's not a nice place to be but why on earth would you believe anything Garcia says without proof to back it up? 

If given the option of believing counsel for Kilmar Abrego Garcia or Nayib Bukele, tell me who you would believe

7 minutes ago, GalagaGuy said:

This constant advocacy from people like you over each and every person in this country illegally is why we have a convicted felon running the country.  

Speaking of advocacy, do you advocate for this kind of treatment?

Garcia, by virtue of being the one CECOT inmate that's been shipped back, has documented conditions in CECOT that are inhumane and cruel.

The arguments about whatever trumped up charges this government has brought against him are beside the point. CECOT is a concentration camp and, apparently, our government is OK shipping people there. It is unacceptable 

Regardless of feelings on Zohran Mamdani, like, wtf

Sorry Cody, but I gave up my subscription to The Athletic because of this ****

4 hours ago, ewsieg said:

As a fiscal conservative, I have never been against a bill that might cause pain, if it could provide a clear path to helping set up the next generation for success.  This is the exact opposite of that.  I purposefully tried to find conservative media's take on this and for the ones that talked about the nuts and bolts of this bill and not just the republican talking points, none of them liked this.  Absolutely horrid.

 

The way this is going to mess with Medicaid is going to cause a lot of stress, and it will absolutely result in hospitals in rural areas closing. That's pretty much baked in.

God have mercy on their souls, because I do not.