alex

18 hours ago, SoCalTiger said:

...We've had nice start to 2024 but look how much of it is attributed to Mark Cahna and Urshela. We could have had one or two more vets as well and still played Meadows, Keith, Wencel, Tork and Verling etc plenty.  Spend a few million each year on one year stop gap players until we don't need to. Make winning today just as important as developing for tomorrow. They don't have to be mutually exclusive.

I agree and well put - They do NOT have to be mutually exclusive.

3 minutes ago, oblong said:

Regarding a "good trade"... who do you propose moving that would bring back good players?  Other GM's want to make good trades too so they won't give up quality for crap.  The Tigers don't have a lot of quality to move. 

Of course that is a good question. My point is many good GMS negotiate some good deals (ex DD). IF not, they no longer keep the position and rarely are rehired by another organization (ex AA - yet, he had 'some' other stronger areas, one was NOT surrounding himself with 'several' good baseball people).

Who? heck, who to deal away and get in return is very subjective. Different organizations value players differently. We do have some talent. Our system is NOT a bottom five anymore. Many pundits rank it mostly in the upper half. We make a list, identify whom we have interest, approach the team (and this also may already be working in reverse, it is very subjective and two sided). Then see what fits (objectively) on both ends with 'several' organizations. Many teams do this. Tampa does it with a lot of success. So does Atlanta, etc. Yet, on the other end the Orioles are very stingy. Most teams are in the middle.

IMHO, sooner or later, as I have said, today to 2-5 years from now, etc. Our FO will have to put together a trade or two that appears to work for both sides (again, someone may be doing this in reverse as well). Can our FO guys do this? That is what I question. This does not take years. A good GM/negotiator simply has  the ability to do this and it can be any time.

Again, scouting and player development is always first and foremost. Yet, some of this development 'could' be used to trade for needs.

12 hours ago, gehringer_2 said:

The best deals for a team like the Tigers do not give up young for old, they are the ones where you have done your homework on up and comers around the high minors or green rookies that haven't proven anything, like Austin Jackson and Max Scherzer. But of course deals like that kill your roster value if the guys you bring don't pan out. So really - it's the same as it ever was - if you can evaluate talent - especially that others miss, you can build a winner. Or you grow your own, or you can spend $250M on payroll. That's really all there is available to management. 

I think there is a lot of magic thinking that the right GM  can just wheel and deal his team into contention. Well, he can try, but in most cases what looks like short term success is burning a system's future seed corn, the way Dombrowski burned ours.

IMHO, a good team, and to be sustainable, should be able to do three things:

1) It HAS to be able to draft (scouting mostly) then develop (player development) some good everyday MLB players. That means pitchers and position players. The Tigers should be getting better at this. They have updated everywhere and again, SHarris has inherited some potential players as well.

2) To be able to sign some FA players. This is on ownership as well. Yet, the ability to make a deal has to be with-in the CEO/GMs ability also.

3) Every successful CEO/GM has to have some ability to negotiate some good trades. You do not always have to give up your best young talent to get talent in return for a position of need. We have 'some' P depth. Other teams have needs as well. It is the scouting departments job to identify potential targets - but then the GM has to be able to 'negotiate the deal' - this and the FA depart both need this ability to some extent.

This is where I am questioning can this front office can do it.

They do not have to wait two years from now to better the team with a trade, because right now we are 'not in the race'. BS, a good GM can get a deal done at anytime. I just feel SHarris is over doing the 'versatile middle INF approach who works the count' - with most of his positional player aquisitions.

You have to have HR power to win games in this league. To drive the ball and drive in runs. We are lacking in that department (get it together Tork!). Sure the player needs to be able to play a position and do other things, but so far the players obtained by SHarris, to me, are more the 'fringe' types you find on a roster: JRizzo, BKennedy, NSolak, SMcKinstry, NMaton, AIbanez, YLee, etc. (also the 2nd & 3rd picks in last years draft), heck even GUrshela.

Again, my question is not the scouting dept., player development, facility and tech etc., all have upgrades. It is - is SHarris (and the GM) the guy(s) who can identify and negotiate a deal for potential 'good everyday players' via FA and trade - and we should not have to wait years to find this out. A good trade can be made at anytime.

IMHO, the Tigers could contend this year for the Central (doing so in September is a step forward) - If the P stays relatively healthy. So, why wait if opportunity presents itself? No, you do not have to always give up the 2-3 so called valued future franchise types either. Many good trades have been made through history to prove this. Many teams often look to unload players... Can our FO identify and negotiate this these type of deal(s)? If not, 2, 3 or 5 years time is NOT going to matter.

18 minutes ago, Sports_Freak said:

There's people calling for his head after just 1 1/2 years? One draft? Get back to me in 3 more years. We can't be firing our GM every two years. And I thought I was impatient...

On my thinking, by no means 'fire' the guy. However, I am very curious if he can/has the ability to make a deal or two here during the next say 18 months to acquire 1-2 quality hitter(s). A value for value deal and/or simply something that is more risky. If he cannot do that, than he is NOT the right person for the job. IMHO, its that simple.

On 5/7/2024 at 9:16 AM, gehringer_2 said:

and to be honest, I can't even agree with Ted here anymore. MLB pitching has reached a point where you don't always get a good pitch to hit in an AB anymore. You better be ready to hang in there against spin and good location or you're just going to give away too many ABs.

Pitchers have been able to throw pitches that 'spin' for years. You cannot say the pitches that BGibson or BFeller or NRyan, etc. threw did not 'spin'. Yes, today they have tweaked this a bit with grips and certain 'torquing' all measured through the motion of delivery by means of technologies used etc. to be able to quantify 'much' of it and then represent it.

Years past, they simply did not have the tech to verify 'what they were doing then' and are doing today. Many pitchers throughout history have done things (heck, even the spitball made odd movements at times, lol). Also, today the ball is lighter so this 'tweaking' of ball motion often can take place. The mound was also higher before 1969. This is one reason why SPs rarely throw more than 180 innings anymore (as Chasfh pointed out previously).

There is a lot to this and the times have changed. Yet, I would think good hitters have also made adjustments as well throughout history.

10 hours ago, Sports_Freak said:

Scott Harris was hired 2 years ago this September. Give the guy at least 5 years to build a team. It makes sense that they didn't sign an expensive hitter, we're more then one player away. We need more hitting, that should be obvious to everyone. 

Do not really agree (just my opinion). Yes, true to turn around the infrastructure ex facilities, player development, scouting, tech used, etc.

Not true for the MLB team. He has inherited 'some' talent. He has in place good pitching (though there will be some injuries, of course to ALL teams).

Too me SHarris needs to show that he can acquire a strong bat or two via trade or FA. This has nothing to do with how many years on the job. Regardless of 1 year or 5, he needs to show that 'he can make a deal, that he has the ability and/or the art of negotiating a solid deal for a hitter or two'...  Yes, scouting has to help and say 'here is a list' - but it does not take 5 years to do that. He could do that anytime between now and say 1-2 years - my Q is, like DD could or unlike AA could not - can SHarris do this?

The Tigers may or may not contend this year. IMHO, they could. However, if SHarris does not have the ability to make 'some' things happen, it will not matter if it this year (he can swing a trade at anytime) or in 5 years. Every GM (this includes JGreenberg) /CEO has to have the ability to negotiate some solid deals - or they will simply be short lived in that position (even if after 5 years ex AA, yet he did have strengths in other areas). If the man in charge can show that he can negotiate deals, ex like DD, they will get several career chances either with one or several organizations.

Quite simple really. We shall see.

All IMHO, I am just venting a bit here, as I have mentioned this before and will say again, SHarris, IMHO, does tend to go overboard with a certain type of player acquisition and it may be excluding a potential 'bigger' time tested understanding. He seems sold on contact types that work the count. Players that control the strike zone. This is fine to an extent but is this approach, used against MLB pitchers taken an idea too far in that it is putting our hitters in a hole too often - meaning getting behind on the count. When that happens we all know the odds favor the pitcher. I have heard CPena mention this on a broadcast, 'that the word is out on the Tigers'. I have heard Gibby talk about our low league ranking on missing middle-middle pitches. Even C-Mo has said the Tiger hitters are missing/taking too many hittable pitches.

Scott Harris, at least to me, seems too intent on finding 'INFs that can move around versatility wise, that work the count'. There is a pattern; NMaton, JCamargo, JRizzo, ZMcKinstry, YHLee, NSolak, RVilade, AIbanez (not so much a count worker here) GUrshela, etc. Even the draft for the 2nd and 3rd picks last year (after an obvious 1st choice of one of the two OFs) they went after KMcGonigle and MAnderson (both middle type INFs who work the count - but not alot of projected power). I have heard him say he wants AJ Hinch to have choices to create a 'dynamic lineup' every game. Is he not appreciating the 'guys' who can swing it and drive the ball that play most every day?

Paraphrasing the next two statements: Ted Williams often said "Every AB you get one good pitch to hit so don't take it, don't miss it and don't foul it away." I remember Jim Leyland when asked about all the baseball strategy changes and saber-metrics, etc. and about on base percentage - he said "I am  more concerned about having guys who can drive in runs."

With said, I do, along with many others like the organizational changes that have taken place with the Tigers. All the scientific stuff Ryan Garko and others have been implementing. Yet, in the end, the game is still the same. You have a defense behind a pitcher who throws the ball and you have a batter with bat in hand and the idea is to drive the ball and score runs. If you spend too much time and resources on trying to 'get on base' and ignore the driving the ball part - it may start showing up in games more than many might think.

So I ponder, does SHarris (and the GM) have the ability to really get/develop 'hitters'? Would he consider, when the time is right, to get a real quailty hitter? Does he have the ability to make negotiate (trade or FA wise) such a move? BTW, here is where I, and others felt, AAvila had challanges.

I will also say, perhaps there may be something to Comerica Park in that some hitters may be getting 'psyched out' by it. Some players that have spoken about it: JGonzalez, BHigginson, NCastellanos, EHaase, etc. and they are just a few who have been open to say it. How many have not publicly?

Keep developing the pitching. Play good fundamental ball and provide sound defense. Yet get/develop some hitters for 'this park' who can drive the ball. Go Tigers!   

3 minutes ago, UCFKNIGHT said:

Would it be possible to acquire a cather 19 games into the 2024 season? Jake Rogers and Carson Kelly are automatic outs these days. I liked the hiring of Scott Harris, but my patience with his decision making is being tested.

I do understand the patience part, it is Harris second year. What I do not understand is that there seems to be a trend. He tends to favor versatile middle INF types who can work a count. He got ZMcKinstry, AIbanez, NMaton, MVierling and NSolak. He recently picked up BKennedy. We can say that may be all that was available, yet for a FA he signed GUrshela. During his first draft, after an obvious first pick (of 2 or 3 players available in the very first round), he went after KMcGonigle and MAnderson. I have heard him say he wants AJ to be able to put together a 'dynamic' lineup on a daily basis that has the best chance to when given the opposing team and P.

All that is fine, to an extent. Does he understand that winning teams need some set 'everyday' potential star positional type players (I did not say superstasr)?

It all gets down to player development. We need to see progress from several of the lot of Tork, Greene, Kieth, Meadows, Carp, Jung, Malloy or another 'rebuild' will be upon us... Can we find some help from Dingler, Kriedler, Hiura, Baddoo, Bigbee, etc. I get it, then we add to that - yet, will we add again with just supplemental utility types?

One thing I do agree is that he does not give SPs long term deals. Unfortunately the game has changed here big time and injuries are constant.

10 hours ago, gehringer_2 said:

Won't be surprised if by June the rotation is be Skubal, Mize, Manning, Olson and that it will be one of either Maeda or Flaherty that ends up hurt or ineffective.

Odds are one of the first four mentioned could be on the IL. Yes, one of the other two 'may' be the same and/or ineffective... ALL clubs will be going through this. We should all know this by now. The Q is whether or not we have 'enough depth' to stand our ground - I believe we do, but only if a couple of the group of SGL, Madden, Montero, Jobe, etc. take the next step.

The concept and evolution of SP has changed. No longer are there 2-3 SPs pitching on a staff throwing 200 innings. Heck, even 180 is REALLY pushing it. There needs to be about 10+ pitches who can give 150 innings total, in the upper echelons (MLB, AAA and to a less degree AA), of an organization this day and age.

20 minutes ago, casimir said:

These games are being broadcast on Bally's this week.

Thanks mucho 🙂

9 hours ago, 1984Echoes said:

In its simplest terms:

I think Avila did a great job at getting the ball rolling towards modernizing the Tigers organization, including hiring such key people as Ryan Garko, AJ Hinch, etc., starting up a data analytics program, etc. The Org was starting to draft better players with skills that translated to a higher level than his early GM years, as a result. Including several later round pitchers and a couple later round position players.

But he didn't come from an analytics background and was therefore mostly behind the 8-ball, with a general lack of understanding on how to apply the analytical data within the organization. This, and many other flaws, says that the bottom line with Avila was that he just wasn't good enough to get the Org all the way to where it needed to be.

On Harris: he was able to see an Org that had laid the groundwork, and just needed the right person to get the Org to the finish line. The Tigers chose him, and he chose the Tigers.

I think Harris is the right guy to get us over the finish line, and Avila was not that guy.

 

 

 

All well put.

I will add, IMHO, he (AA) was 'trained' a certain way for a long time - hence he was not earlier on with the changes the league had made (biomechanics, the sciences, player development, etc.).

He also had most all 'old school' types working for him and was loyal to a fault and this put the org behind the 8 ball big time. Yet, he did see the changes and tried, like you mentioned, to move forward (Garko, Hinch, etc.). With said the org. could not develop much in terms of offensive minded players and still relied on 'pure power' types and guys who "could run like gazelles" as he often put it - but development and baseball quotient identifying was not in the cards at all.

I do feel AA could ID some players for sure - but overall the people in the organization  were too far out of touch with the modern methods and again development was poor.

40 minutes ago, casimir said:

I didn't know Rivera was in the Tiger sights.  I do recall some sort of Higginson for Williams chatter, but I don't know if it was one for one or if other players were involved.

Yea, a lot of 'chatter'. I remember hearing chatter as well - something about Mike Drumwright (RHP) and Roberto Duran (LHP) for Williams, but the NYY Pres/or owner 'supposedly' nixed it.

8 hours ago, Tenacious D said:

That is a good one !

4 hours ago, CaliforniaDreaming said:

...with a power arm

Are you kidding me ?  You can't make that up. 🙂

Thank you for the feed backs! I will look at these things.

Yes, I think my desktop is more 'messy' than messed up, lol. Yet, in most other things I am quite 'orderly' for the most part - sometimes it even irks people. 🤨🙂

Another churn and burn. That was fast for Ingram. Maybe he makes it through waivers.:

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2024/02/tigers-claim-t-j-hopkins-designate-kolton-ingram.html

Thanks for the suggestion. I will look into this. BTW, do I need a password to get into Safe Mode  to do this in Windows 10?

Opps, I posted this in the Spring Training thread... 😔

I do like the risk. As mentioned 'Maybe we can help him get better'.

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2024/02/tigers-to-sign-keston-hiura.html

Cannot hurt. A lot of K's but power and ability to play some 1B and 2B. So more depth. Maybe 'We can help make him better'. That adage fits here. Still just 27 yrs old.

21 minutes ago, Edman85 said:

Little known fact: cold whether doesn't cause illness. Or at least the cold itself. Being indoors around others, which cold weather causes people to do is the culprit.

This is true. However, when it is cold the body will relinquish 'energy' to stay warm. Then bodily reserves are taxed. Then, if the body is in that state, when around others, a bacteria and/or virus which another may have, could be spread more easily (ex hand shakes, hugs, any contact or with shared item usage, etc.) - then when one touches their own face, eyes, nose, etc. it may be transferred.

27 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

You could try clicking on the security tab, then 'Edit', pick your user from the list and then in the bottom dialog give yourself 'full control' and click apply, then see if you can delete it.

Thank you for answering. I tried clicking on the 'security' tab. Then hit 'edit' below the first box (image 1). Then next box (image 2) it would NOT allow me to choose anything. Then I 'x' out and choose 'advanced' below the second box and this appeared  (image 3)... Not sure here...

Hello, This app/icon recently showed up on my desk top, it was after visiting a couple sites to talk about the Tigers and logging into Playstation. Just before Superbowl wk end. I do not do any betting nor even sought to.

I have tried to get rid of it by deleting it R click (see what happens below in image nos 1-3) even hit L click (no 4).

I tried to go into my Settings and then 'Add or Remove Programs' - but the file is not there or obvious to me.

In laymen's terms what might be the next step to try to remove it? Any help greatly appreciated...

On 1/19/2024 at 8:27 AM, casimir said:

He did have a pretty good season in Toledo.  I suppose it could be argued that he suffered a bit of bad BABIP luck in Detroit.

Maybe I'm being too harsh.  I thought he was nearing 30 years old already, but he won't be 27 until Memorial Day.  Maybe there's still something there.  Looking over some of his batted ball stuff, he is below MLB average on pulling the ball and really beat the ball into the dirt last season.  I don't know.

Yea, I felt that he may be able to be a decent part time player. He had a high pedigree (a no. 1 draft spot), held prospect status for awhile in CO., and he has shown he can hit at AAA. Perhaps there is still something there and he is a bit of a late bloomer - or he could simply be another AAAA type.

Seemed the second time around last year with the team he had made some progress (yes some bad BABIP). H is also pretty selective at the plate and versatile. Just maybe...

Interesting on SImanaga, perhaps several teams were scared off with all the 'speculative' amounts that were being thrown around to get him - after the apx YYamamoto deal of 12 years and $325 mil to the LAD.

Hindsight is 20/20 but Imanaga at 4 years and $53 mil (or 5 at 80) seems decent enough. I am ok with the JFlaherty deal and we have a little bit depth (though I would still sign another Depth/reclamation type SP).

My point is maybe we felt there was not a chance to get Imanaga (to sign with Detroit) and/or the speculative price was going to be too high (yet came in decent) so the Tigers acted on plan B/C. I do not blame them at all, and see the end result as decent enough.

We will see who is left standing for the FA musical chairs (pitchers and position players) and maybe an 'opportunistic' chance will show itself as we go deeper into the off season as ST gets closer and closer.

8 minutes ago, casimir said:

That's exactly what I see with Chapman.  San Francisco signs him to essentially what he is looking for.  I think I saw 6/$150K as a projection somewheres on the interwebs.

That would not be a wise move IMHO for SF... but... they may do something like this AND more.