alex

11 hours ago, RaceDog said:

Miguel Andujar was let go....I think the Tigers should take a flyer on him and see if he is fixable.

Was thinking similar. Yet, as KL2 just mentioned:

8 hours ago, KL2 said:

They could cause its not like anybody is there. But outside of his rookie year (albeit in very limted duty) he's sported a slash of .230/.257/.581. Just a hair better than Nevin, maybe we should just stick with Nevin and his possible upside.

I think TNevin warrants a good look, if they had not traded for him I would be even more for this exploration/idea. There is also the thought that they still 'might' be looking at ERios or even an invite for 'Moose' (both LHB & 3B/1B, Rios obvious more upside as younger). Yet here, IF the case, the player would have to chose to come to Detroit as well.

One good thing about MAndujar is that although not a real strong defender, he can ad some diversity 3B/1B/LF (albeit similar to Nevin). He is still young enough (28 this yr?) and hit well at AAA as recent as last season. I believe he is at apx 1.53mil for the upcoming season IF they were to 'claim/trade' for him.

21 minutes ago, mtutiger said:

 

Good to know.

Yet, every team should always be working on improving to some extent, even the little things in any organization, aka never content IF opportunity arises and sometimes that must be created as well.

2 hours ago, Motor City Sonics said:

Indeed ! - 😉  🛸

BTW, is there a link to the Tiger Talk WXYT/The Ticket/97.1  shows? I know they did one last night (01/09/23, PCaputo & DD) but I missed it... Thanks

32 minutes ago, mtutiger said:

We needed to see more of Willi Castro in CF! lol

Mystery Solved !  (Not!!) 🤣

However, I do wish WCastro (and all of the boys) well !

7 minutes ago, chasfh said:

I have wondered about the Trayce Thompson situation because the whole thing was just so weird.

Released by the Padres on May 14, signed by the worst-hitting-team-in-baseball Tigers on May 19, killing it in Toledo for a month (.299/.352/.639 in 25 games ) after killing it in El Paso (.316/.385/.860 in 16 games), and instead of being promoted to Detroit, gets sold by the worst-hitting-team-in-baseball Tigers to the Dodgers on June 20, for whom he goes on to crush it for the rest of the season (.268/.364/.537 in 70 games).

It makes zero sense. What gave with that?

I posted this also at that time last year. I think sometimes too many people get caught up (including management personnel) in age and to not waste ABs on anyone over 29-30. Clearly he would of been an upgrade over some players that we did play in the OF - and were not part of the future. Hey, he is a RH hitting OF lol.

Who knows what Trayce will do this year. He was pretty good everywhere last year and is a serviceable player - and the LAD thought/think quite a bit of him. I will put it in the file cabinet under 'Histories Mysteries'.  🤨 🌌 🛸

9 hours ago, mtutiger said:

...I still would like them to go get Brian Anderson or someone like that as a true 3B and for them to use Maton as a true utility guy (similar to the Harold Castro role), but if he ends up as primary 3B with Nevin or Kreidler behind him, it wouldn't be the end of the world.

I do like the deal - but more importantly I hope we can help any combo of these younger player acquisitions take their careers forward - development is key they have some ability and are not total free swingers per say like many younger players have been around here recently.

I agree either BAnderson or ERios still could help (IMHO, we need someone to bat 4 or 5 still).

For LHRP, SHarris mentioned it might be someone more on a minor league deal - so maybe DNorris and/or ZBritton? Chaffin would be nice but...  I would not think he has too much restriction to get/keep the payroll close to last year. It seems it is hovering in that area?

1 minute ago, mtutiger said:

I'm shocked to learn that Andy Ibanez isn't actually the plan to be 3B in 2022.

There is still plenty of time  😉  😄

14 minutes ago, Tenacious D said:

Well, it looks like Harris’ dumpster diving could pay off.  Some of his pickups cleared waivers and are still in the org, but off the 40-man now.

 

This is IMHO actually quite good. Now they have these players as depth (I believe mtutiger and others here mentioned this philosophy before as well).

FWIW, I believe they could have pulled Feliciano and/or Ibanez back if they were claimed and then just kept them on the 40, all without anyone knowing really publicly they had been claimed.

Next they can add from here another waiver claim or two and/or add via FA or trade.

17 minutes ago, mtutiger said:

All of which can still happen this offseason. 

Again, I think there's an implication by some that Harris is just sitting back and not trying to do anything because there hasn't been a lot of buzz, and that is pretty unfair. But in any free agent market, players have a decent amount of leverage, even those at the lower end of the market.

This team won 66 games last year... teams that are unsuccessful generally don't have the same kind of leverage that teams who win more games do. Last years Tigers likely stand as a good example... they won 77 games and did manage to have a decent offseason on paper in the free agent market.

But I keep preaching patience because the offseason isn't over yet. Maybe a couple of free agent signings happen and/or a trade or two. Even now, we are a couple of these kinds of transactions away from all of the laments about the Tigers offseason being made obsolete.

Maybe nothing additional happens, and I'm fine with the criticism at that point. But a lot of epitaphs are being written about this offseason while it is still ongoing, and it's kinda puzzling 

I think sometimes simply because, as you have mentioned, it seems on the outside that nothing much is really being attempted. I to have fallen to this 'appearance' That does not mean some FAs and trades came close to actual fruition. I for one believe WContreras  was sought but that was during an early time (he would of checked off several needs: a type of cornerstone player, SHarris was familiar with him, C/OF, fourth place type hiter, etc.) and maybe the Tigs were not ready (actually totally surprised) at this years market for both the price and years it actually took (St Louis is a good organization and they looked at it and jumped on it).

Where we 'may' disagree a bit is that ABs should be given to youngsters perhaps (ex Clemens, Kriedler, etc) and not to marginal FAs. IMHO, the youngsters will still get ABs (depth, injuries, etc.) but when (not if) that weaker perspective of depth is challenged - where do they go from there? Lesser ready youngsters - that is a recipe for disaster.

Then we go back to 'trying to sign a quality or two FA next off season and you said it yourself...

This team won 66 games last year... teams that are unsuccessful generally don't have the same kind of leverage that teams who win more games do. Last years Tigers likely stand as a good example... they won 77 games and did manage to have a decent offseason on paper in the free agent market.

... this predicament again is much less attractive for FAs (a constant 60+ W team as opposed to a close to .500 team).  I am NOT saying top guys for 250 mil contracts (like Texas) need be done now per say. Just 2-3 mid level guys who can help win some games, take some pressure off, allow youngsters to develop and get the team 'closer' to respectability so the season for fans can be more enjoyable and a semblance of hope for competing can be there (esp in this division). This out of it by May 15th is not what most fans, players, etc. want. Also, if 'youngsters' are performing well (ex CKieth, PMeadows, WFlores, DDingler, etc. even a player like TNevin for that matter) - SHarris and A.J. will get them in the mix regardless of what 'modest' investments (if that) they put into 2-3 vet types (ex 5 - 10 mil ea if that).

Again, IMHO, too many reasons not to get 2-3 vets to help in MANY ways. I have no doubt SHarris will do this soon via FAs and/or trades. You said it yourself several times - they still have time.

Also, for the record, as I have mentioned many times here, drafting and developing is key and they will get more chances there as well with 3 of the top 46 picks this summer to go along with all the organization personnel they have changed in hopes to do this. 🙂 Go Tigs !

30 minutes ago, mtutiger said:

I think you are largely right on where this team lies... it's closer to a 75 win ballclub than a 65 win ballclub, the combination of injuries (Greene, Meadows, the pitchers), sub-par rookie performances (Torkelson), and vets shitting the bed (Baez, Schoop, etc.) did a number on their record. Maybe some performances will be replicated in 2023, but they have a decent amount of upside going into next year. 

The difficulty for the Tigers isn't just about money or Chris Ilitch, it's that when you are a 66 win ballclub, there is a massive gap to close. Individual free agents may be worth a couple of games on average, so how many big splashy signings do you need to make to close that gap realistically?

Maybe they will overperform expectations, win 80 games and leave us wishing they had done more this offseason. But realistically, not landing Jean Segura or Brandon Drury on a 2 year deal isn't gonna make a huge difference with this team. Certainly not more than better individual performances from vets already on contracts and younger players.

I think the main theme for the Tigers is and should be to develop young talented players. The appointed staff will have a chance to do so and their upgraded scouting will get a chance with the draft this year (3 picks in the top 46 or so?) to upgrade. IMHO, some of the players that under performed or could not perform last year hopefully will do better (Baez, Schoop, Meadows, etc.). However, there will be injuries. Right now there is little or no depth with position players. I just feel at this time there is a difference between having Clemens and Kriedler (at this point in his career), etc. on the field too often as oppose to say Brian Anderson or ERios and AJPollock or AMcCutchen (or a couple others).

However, if the aforementioned players perform better, and Greene and Tork develop along with not having an abundance of injuries all over the diamond (like last year) the team could win as you mentioned 75 - then if you had a couple decent vets who do 'alright' the team could be closer to an 80 win team. With this comes some hope to compete in the division (this division), makes the season more enjoyable and it is more attractive to next years free agent class (ex having a  .500 team as opposed to a 60+ W team - of course money talks but the chance to win helps).

I bet SHarris has reached out to a few FAs, and Detroit is not a top choice because of the teams most recent record and the ballpark/location.

I still think there 'will be' a trade or two and a FA signing or two - but the FA market is getting quite slim. There is a difference between a roughly .500 team and a 60+ win team. Just look at the Tigers themselves from 2021 to 2022.

7 hours ago, Tenacious D said:

The Rangers signed Nate Eovaldi to a 2-year deal, to join deGrom, Odorizzi, Andrew Heaney, who were all acquired this offseason and holdovers Dane Dunning and Martin Perez in the rotation, with Leiter, Rocker and Brock Porter looming.

 

Also Jon Gray I believe. They went all out for SP this off-season it seems.

Maybe they need a little BP help as well? Josh Smith, EDuran, DHarris all make potential interesting young trade targets that could be available.

Trade Idea, Always much easier said than done of course, but may make some sense:

NYM:  GSoto, JWentz, JCisnero and a decent prospect (no one on MLB Roster) / or a top prospect (out of our top 5 for ex CKeith, IPacheco or maybe even JJobe).

Det: BBaty, EEscobar (they just signed DMendick for utility) and HCarrasco / or MCanha (more so the top prospect here w/ Canha).

Tigs get to fill out part of the lineup and top a prospect. NYM get salary relief (at some point they will seek it) and decent controllable arms.

After we 'could' deal HCarrasco+ to a team needing a SP in some capacity for another decent prospect (ex Angels/JAdell, Tex/JSmith or EDuran).

Just thought to float an idea... 🙂 ☃️ After all it is Christmas time, lol...

1 minute ago, mtutiger said:

Neither do I. 

Thought experiment: what if, between now and the end of the offseason, they end up landing a couple of the remaining bigger names. For arguments sake, let's say it's Profar and Jean Segura. If those signings had happened at the end of the Winter Meetings versus in January, would people still be saying they "weren't active" this offseason?

People don't like to hear it, but the free agency period isn't over yet. The offseason isn't over yet. You don't get bonus points for filling your holes in early December versus filling them in late January... the holes either get filled or they do not. 

I dont know what they will or won't do between now and the offseason. But the fact that they haven't signed for any of their stated offensive needs or the fact that the Jon Heyman types haven't thrown their name out (ie. laundered agent talking points) doesn't mean nothing will happen going forward.

Yes. I agree, on each front. For this off season if they sign 2 of the decent remaining FAs and/or make say one more deal, for starting types - that is addressing the the MLB team.

22 minutes ago, casimir said:

I kind of wonder if Perez is the LHH IF.  And if he doesn’t show MLB ready in spring, fine, he goes to Toledo and they just go with Clemens/Kreidler along with Baez and Schoop.

IMHO, there will be a couple/few positional player additions before (or even during ST). Yes, it has been perhaps frustrating from a position player side in terms of additions - but SHarris strikes me as having a plan and that included positional player additions via Trades and or a couple FAs.

Sure there may not be any 'needle' movers (on the surface) remaining (in FAs) but they are not going in with WPerez, RKreidler, KClemens, JRogers, PMeadows,  etc. on the MLB roster when they more than likely all need AAA time themselves.

The team is not 'tanking' and with the new draft order in place it makes no sense. Sure the likes of BAnderson, ERios, JProfar, GSancez, MGarver, AMcCutchen, BDuvall, AJPollack, TPham, JSegura, etc. are not 'exciting' per say but any two could still help win games while youngsters gain time at AAA - and a trade or two may be had as well for a younger player (and even a vet if willing to take on salary).

Then towards the midway point of the season much will be reevaluated. Who has developed? who is behind? who could be moved? added? etc.

3 hours ago, mtutiger said:

There are still some options out there.... Myers is really only the third guy on the board who I thought they may be in on to come down (after Jace Peterson and Haniger).

I don't think he's the greatest player, but I'm kinda warming on Jurickson Profar just due to his versatility in the field and the fact that he seems to fit the need for a guy who knows the strikezone and can take a walk. Also, coincidentally, old LLWS teammates of Jonathan Schoop.

But like a lot of other guys, I have no idea what the market for him is like.... but it seems like there should be more interest than he's gotten so far.

Yea, just heard/saw a short video excerpt from his platform interview that he (Myers) wanted to get to play at a place closer to home and that the ballpark was a factor. Cannot say for sure, but sounds like he may have had other offers.

48 minutes ago, mtutiger said:

He made a lot of sense... 

Totally agree. 1B maybe some 3B, LF/RF... At this rate the end of next month - there may be no FAs left.

I see Jeter Downs was claimed by WA.

I would say patience is very important here - but it is getting frustrating. SHarris may have under estimated a bit how Comerica plays in the FA one year hitter contract efforts.

3 hours ago, RatkoVarda said:

couple of names to consider in trades that no one asked for:
Baty - would cost a ton; long term piece hopefully

Madrigal - zero power, but may have bat to ball skills Harris wants

Josh Smith and Ezekiel Duran - blocked in Texas; Smith (LH) is wasted in LF

Victor Robles - just 25, elite RH CF defender w/2 years of control left, would pair nicely with Greene (transitioning to a corner) and Parker Meadows (in 2024)

Nolan Gorman - may K too much for Harris, but miscast as 2b

Oswaldo Cabrera (SH) - miscast as OF

Dominic Canzone - 3rd string LH 1b/OF in Arizona

Eguy Rasario - blocked in SD, but a RH bat

Vidal Brujan - over hyped prospect who has shown zero power/production in small samples; Metzler would have insights

Yes, this is a good list. Can also maybe throw in a player like Joe Adell (Angels) and a few more. There hopefully will be some action at some point as the FA names are dwindling everyday (ex WMyers so far today. You would think we could of beaten that offer or the BDrury one as well. Yet, in either case maybe the park played a part also). I actually think Detroit more than likely has made a couple fair offers to FAs hitters - but nothing has come of any of them. Comerica is not a hitters first choice to build value (also just mentioned by ToddWert). Hopefully Detroit will not wait til everyone is signed - then other teams will also be on the trade train.

Even if SHarris (or any FO chief) is on vacation I bet there are check ins and if someone is available the next in charge will be 'given the go' to proceed if something can be consummated. If opportunity knocks you have to be ready, just ask Steve Cohen, lol. Was he not in Hawaii (or somewhere) this past week but still got CCorrea?

Actually I am ok with the moves so far for the MLB team: Boyd, Lorenzen, Ibanez and even Feliciano (also Malloy). The upper management has improved it would seem along with scouting, player development, conditioning, the hitting philosophy and other areas where there is potentially upgraded personnel coming aboard.

My concerns, and it may be early still, are with the depth of the MLB team. Injuries are going to happen. Right now we do not even have a complete team to put on the field. When (not if) an injury or two occurs we currently have no depth.

I actually do think the team has a chance to still be decent - provided some smart moves are made. We are not in a strong division really. Two years ago we came on strong and were thought to be turning the corner (then injuries and down years took place). No one gave Cleveland a chance at this time last year and for that matter well on into May - but it happened.

There is some time still. Some players to had - be it FA and/or trade. However, if the mindset is to 'Come to Detroit to get better' that IMHO does not attract many 'position' players (aka Comerica Park, listen to Lorenzan Presser). Veterans know what coaches are for. Many hire their own personal coaches in several areas. Not every player need be 24 or under for this team to get better. If that were the case then just follow minor league teams - but the Tigers are a MLB team.

BTW, we will get even more 'prospect' talent in the next draft, ex 3 picks in the top 46? We just have to start developing players (esp positional) regardless and that should be perhaps the organization's main focus - but many of us would not mind a few more MLB players as well along the way.

9 minutes ago, mtutiger said:

Maybe they didn't want Brandon Drury?

It seems maybe so - as that deal was not bank breaking. Maybe his BB/K ratios were not a top choice. If it is players that want to get better - and they then chose to come here is a selling point - that sounds more like a Edwin Rios type idea (which might be ok) or even GSanchez (Haase more 1B and OF). This team needs a middle of the order bat (maybe two).

Still think something will happen before too long. WMyers could be a decent fit. Not a first choice but at this time... JProfar could bat at the top of the order and is able to move around - but hard to believe either of these two will have to settle on a one yr deal.

Just now, Motor City Sonics said:

Hey, we can't even sign a utility player like Brandon Drury.      Come on, man.     Seriously, are we playing Kody Freaking Clemens at third this year?     I know hands are tied, but this is really deflating.       This is Chris.    This is our future, isn't it?  Nothing year after year.   We're the Pirates now...........we might stumble into the playoffs one year and then sell everything immediately and start over.      Still like the front office moves so far, but those won't pay off for 4 years.   So 2023, 2024 just mean nothing, I guess.   As long as Chris breaks even.   This sucks.  

It does 'look' deflating... trying to sell MLB hitters on coming here to get better is not the line most want to hear. They need to get some players here soon. Right now they do not have positions filled. Yes, there is always some time but players are coming off the board every day. Then you throw in injuries that are inevitable, and you see a picture that is not too 'bright'.

Maybe there is a trade and/or signing(s) in the works (hard to think there is not). Just a few too many holes at this time it seems.

Just now, RatkoVarda said:

so Correa flunked himself to take less money?

More data will come out. Who knows. I am not saying he decided on less money - as he agreed to SF initially. Yet, maybe he thought it over, had some hesitation and this gave him a 'window' to get out of IMHO, what would have become a VERY pressured situation. Sometimes when it comes to that much money a person can decide (family involved too remember) on what is best long term for many reasons and the few (to him maybe) extra beans may not be worth it.

No doubt several things may have been going on here... Stay tuned to the same 'Bat' channel in Gotham City, lol...

2 hours ago, casimir said:

As was mentioned above, this is where Harris might take some risk (in the form of excess Met salary) along with some prospects.  McCann would be one piece that the Tigers have a roster opening for.  Looking over the rest of the Met 40, they seem to be heavy in pitchers. 

But one other interesting salary that might be of interest is RHH OF/1B Mark Canha ($11.5M in 2023 with a $11.5M team option or $2M buyout for 2024).  Moving Canha could be helpful to both clubs.

Hmm, this could be an opportunity for Detroit (and other teams) to look at and 'act' upon. IF they could get Canha (OF/1B) and McCann, salary relief for NYM - if they actually even seek it (crazy... but it hits our payroll though but these two players could help for 2 yrs) and a top of the line prospect like BBaty (or at least MVientos+) for RP and a mid-level prospect package - it might solve a few areas in one deal.

Also, as someone else mentioned, I wonder if the SF move gave Correa cold feet in that it would have been a very pressured position- and  in a not so hitter friendly ballpark as well. With NYM he is not 'the guy' with many stars surrounding him.

8 minutes ago, RatkoVarda said:

that $24M will actually cost the Mets $45.6M total ($22.8M per year). I know Cohen is loaded but that's a lot to pay for McCann! I would ask for a lot more than mid-level prospect; and offer the Mets something actually useful, like Foley or Faedo.

Agreed. Would need to be more a quality prospect ex 3B MVientos as they have BBatty and may 'buy' another 3B next off season.

37 minutes ago, mtutiger said:

Absolutely would be worth sacrificing Zack Short for IMO

I tend to agree. Seems he needs a change of scenery. Maybe he had put a lot of pressure on himself as he was a key piece in the MBetts deal.

Still young enough to take a chance - and yes not often do you see many fall offs like this from AA to AAA.