Tiger337

2 hours ago, chasfh said:

That's the going market for pitching, unfortunately. Them's the breaks.

Did the Jays and Bassitt announce they they've cut ties? If not, I can't imagine he wouldn't go right back to them if they have him even a halfway decent offer. I don't see where he's so much better as a rotation option than Cody Ponce.

 

Oh, I would have been excited if they got him.  I'm just not too disappointed that they didn't.  

1 hour ago, chasfh said:

Doesn't look to me as though Harris is sharing any blame in your view ... 😏

Ahhh, hell, I really shouldn't even be responding. I simply can't take seriously any position stipulating that Harris deserves no credit at all, only blame. Sorry.

 

And for everyone else—no, I'm not saying Harris deserves only credit, no blame. I will say that the credit I think he deserves for putting together the vast improvements to our development, coaching, data science, prospect base, big league roster, etc., across the past three years is obvious to me, but whatever blame he might deserve would depend on my knowing exactly what it was he offered in trade and what he turned down, which I don't. I'm having difficulty dinging him for things he didn't do, such as not trading for this guy or not signing that free agent, when we don't even know whether such trades or offers were even on the table, and how the other sides responded in turn. All we know is what we can see that we can all agree upon seeing.

Most of it is obvious to me too, except for the part about "big league roster".  That is not apparent to me.  I am hoping it will become more apparent soon.  

1 hour ago, buddha said:

how did adding paddack and morton NOT make the team worse?

what were the stats of the guys they replaced?  and what were the stats of the guys they could have traded for but didnt?  you'd have to know both of those.

it appears harris has set up an organization that has done well in creating an environment to develop young players.  that means a lot.  in the long run, that will be more important than short term success in qualifying for the wild card two years in a row.

but his trade deadline moves hurt the team.  youre straining credulity by saying paddack and morton didnt hurt the overall results.

I think they replaced Melton and Keider Montero.  

2 minutes ago, Tenacious D said:

Seems like a reasonable deal.  Good get by the BoSux.

It's reasonable, but I am leery of long-term deals for pitchers who are not elite.  

Ranger Suarez to the Red Sox for 5/130.  I was hoping the Tigers would pursue him, but 5 years is a long time for a pitcher who is solid but not elite.  Right now, I am hoping for Bassitt.  It would be another safe low risk move by Harris, but a good one.  

2 minutes ago, Stormin said:

Jim Campbell was GM/President of the Tigers for 30 years and what I remember most are the two years the Tigers won a post season series (1968 and 1984).   The Tigers have won a post season series in 2 of the 3 years Scott Harris has been a GM.

In the long run, Harris/Hinch will be be judged collectively by how often they make the post season and if the Tigers win in the post season.  I really doubt details like first half vs second half records, players inherited or obtained, and even specific trade deadline deals will mean much in the long run.  If the Tigers continue to make the post season with some regularity, Harris and Hinch will be here a long time.  If the Tigers are absent from the post season for an extended period, Harris/Hinch will be fired.

As far as spending, I would think most GMs will spend as much money as the owner allows.

 I mostly agree, but a very large number of fans only remember championships.  So, ultimately, they will be judged by those fans on whether they win the World Series, not just playoffs.  

4 hours ago, alex said:

We could say that in both instances, after each of the last two seasons trade deadlines ('24 and '25), the exact opposite happened (team Ws and Ls) that Scott Harris was more than likely thinking would happen - as a result of his moves. Think about it.

Harris knew exactly what was going to happen in both cases.  He thinks outside the box.  He plays 3D chess.  The rest of the league is playing checkers.  

1 minute ago, Tenacious D said:

I’ve seen him around downtown Birmingham on occasion (usually the Sunday Farmer’s Market).  Dude has polos and T-shirts in his repertoire, too, but he’s no slave to fashion like DD was.

How often have you seen him?  You a stalker?

3 minutes ago, Shelton said:

Good point, please go back and edit your posts to say that Harris made the team better in August and worse in September and did just enough to reach the playoffs for the second year running. We wouldn’t want to leave anything out. 

He just wanted to make it interesting.  Great entertainment in both 2024 and 2025. 

1 minute ago, Sports_Freak said:

The Tigers divisional collapse of 2025 will be discussed for generations. Any time a team loses a division lead, it will be compared to the 2025 Detroit Tigers.

 

I'll remember 2024 more than 2025.  2024 was the most unexpected and remarkable comeback I have ever seen and I hope it does not get forgotten.  The 2025 collapse was really bad, but it's not as memorable because they still made the playoffs at the end.  

2 hours ago, oblong said:

he's just a college boy more concerned about his haircut and quarter zips than baseball.  

I don't understand the hair thing.  I don't notice anything about his hair.  

The quarter zips are a problem though.  He needs to get some striped polos.  

2 hours ago, oblong said:

what's the ****ing difference between when a team wins or loses their games?  They went 3-13 down the stretch in 2025.   A baseball team going 3-13 is not unheard of.  They went 5-13 in May of 2024.  One season is great, the other is horrible?  That makes no logical sense and just speaks to the ignorant sports talk show mentality.  

If fans were told prior to each of the '24 and '25 seasosn they would win 86 and 87 game, the fans would have been ok with that.  

 

 

I agree with this.  Both seasons had he same result and it was a good one.  Sequencing of good and bad streaks doesn't matter much.  

1 hour ago, chasfh said:

Personally, I think the players should get more of the credit in 2024 and more of the blame in 2025 than anyone here has been giving them for either.

Giving players credit and blame is generally something I am on board with.  

22 minutes ago, NorthWoods said:

He cleared the deadwood so the youngsters could take ownership of the team and thrive.

But the biggest deal he made was trading Flaherty and now he's brought him back two times

1 hour ago, Sports_Freak said:

Are you trying to give Harris credit for this? Do you also want to assign him the blame for the historic collapse of 2025?

He only gets credit for stuff.  Not Blame.  Upper Management 101.  

Another thing about platoons is that managing platoons is more than just LHB versus RHP.  Every manager does that.  It's about knowing when to let your LHB face a LHP, so you can keep his bat (or glove) in the game for later.  That sort of thking. That's the sort of maneuver I trust Hinch to do better than most managers.   

38 minutes ago, tiger2022 said:

In his first two seasons, Bonds hit .221 and .228 against LH pitchers.  Sounds like a perfect platoon player.  

I would prefer to just stick your best player out there 

Even early in his career, Bonds's splits were nowhere close to being as extreme as Carpenter.  

10 minutes ago, tiger2022 said:

I agree with the bullpen influencing the game, but I think platooning players can have a negative effect on them.  Not allowing lefties to hit against lefties just because of reasons hurts young guys in the long run. Why not let Carpenter hit against everyone? 

Hinch probably would have platooned Ted Williams, Barry Bonds, or Babe Ruth because you know lefty on lefty.

Platoons are fine at the catcher position just because they need days off.  

Players usually keep their platoon splits throughout their careers.  Not many left-handed batters who struggle against lefties learn how to hit them.  If they are strong fielders, then put them out there every day.  Otherwise, putting them out there to learn how to hit lefthanders doesn't usually work.  

Just now, tiger2022 said:

Managers and coaches really don't matter much.  If you don't have talent, it won't make any difference.  

I agree for the most part.  They can influence games with bullpen management, platooning, etc and Hinch is really good at those things.  You can't get anywhere without talent though.  

1 hour ago, Shelton said:

A few notes:

Skubal as a 5+ service time service player is not unique. Nearly every player to reach their final year of arbitration is a 5+ service time player. This is not some secret provision that makes him special. Why is it a story? Because Boras told his media cronies and they ate it up. The reason it’s rarely cited is that it has minimal persuasive value.
 

Slubal is in his third year of arbitration. Not his fourth.
 

That David price contract was a fourth year arbitration award. In Price’s third year he made 14. He went 4-10-14-19.7 over his four arb years.

Juan soto’s record of 31 was also a fourth year arbitration contract. Soto went 8-17-23-31.
 

Corbin Burnes was a three year arb guy. Had won a Cy young. Was coming off multiple star appearances. Received cy young votes multiple years in a row. His three arb salaries were 6-10-15. Now he’s getting 31 from free agency. 

The suggestion from Skubal/boras is that his arbitration salaries should be 4-10-32. A 22 million dollar raise. A 200+% raise. 

Skubal is a fantastic pitcher  Second best in baseball at the moment. But he’s not a unicorn. He’s not the first tier 1 SP or ace or whatever label you want to use. He’s not the first player coming off a cy young. There was one just last year named Tarik Skubal that got over a 100% raise from his prior 4 million dollar salary.

For Skubal and Boras to prevail, they would need to convince an objective and trained neutral arbitration panel that Skubal is so unique that his fair series of arbitration salaries would be at least 4-10-26. 
 

Is there a chance? The panel is human so anything is possible. But they are also huge nerds and they are going to love Scotty Harris.

 

I think you are right...Don't call him Scotty though.  He is definitely a Scott.  

Who is Brian Simmons Harris Sux He needs to get some real pitchers.   

1 hour ago, Tenacious D said:

What if I told you that we could add Ranger Suarez, Freddie Peralta and Jonah Tong to the rotation to replace Skubal?  

You just told us.  

2 hours ago, chasfh said:

I know I'm not changing anyone's mind. We're all too old to change our minds, probably about anything, but certainly about any of this.

 

I can change my mind, but the evidence needs to be convincing.  People told me that AJ Hinch was was the best manager ever.  I told them that managers don't matter.  Now, I agree that Hinch is a great manager, the best I've followed closely.  Then when I give him credit for the Tigers winning, people get MAD.  Some people can just never be happy.  😐

2 minutes ago, chasfh said:

Now consider how the Tigers of 2011-14 were regarded versus the Tigers of today.

They were able to sign Victor Martinez, Pudge Rodriguez , Magglio Ordonez and Miguel Cabrera (prior to free agency) before the 2011-2014 window.  Signing at the end of the window would have been a mistake.  

9 minutes ago, chasfh said:

The Tigers are not the best option by any stretch for any player looking for a ring next year. The Tigers might be competitive for a Central team, but players surely don't think of them in the same category as the Dodgers, Yankees, Mets, Red Sox, Blue Jays, or Phillies. No amount of additional money will convince a top free agent already assured of well into nine figures to commit the rest of his career to a franchise that could blow it up and start all over at a moment's notice, which the Tigers have a recent history of doing. One more dollar won't compensate for that, obviously, but one hundred million dollars wouldn't do it, either, if we're talking about the difference between 400 from the Dodgers or Blue Jays, and 500 from the Tigers. At that level, the money doesn't matter—it's all about the rings.

You almost certainly will strongly disagree. You may even reaffirm that, as is always the case, no one here agrees on my assessment. That's fine. I already know what you think of me. I also know what I know, and I don't require you to know it, nor am I motivated to change your mind about it, or about anything else. I'm just here to give my opinion, like everyone else, and nothing more. There's plenty of room for more than one of those here.

I don't think that's true.  Under Dombrowski, the Tigers sometimes signed expensive free agents  by making over the top offers.  I don't suggest they should or will do that now, but players can be bought.