Tiger337

1 minute ago, chasfh said:

There is precedent for Baby Doc spending like Papa Doc—he gave 6/140 to Javy Baez on the mere say-so of Al Avila. Plus, it is well-reported that after hiring Harris, Chris invested millions into upgrading organizational infrastructure related to coaching, training, player development, and data science. These are not the actions of an industrialist who’s about to embark upon harvesting the business.

On the other hand, perhaps it’s not unreasonable to speculate that one of the reasons Ilitch is investing so much in infrastructure now is so he can cheap out on players later, choosing to cycle through a process of identifying and developing great young talent and then flipping them before having to pay them their due? Becoming more or less a Rays North, sometimes playing baseball instead of golf in October but never able to close the deal in November? This is a baseless speculation that comes out of my own imagination, an exercise in nothing more than covering bases, but it does seem consistent with some folks’ defeatist vision of how they see the Harris regime playing out.

In the end, though, I would think even you would have to admit that we can’t come to either conclusion as of today. The only way to know whether Ilitch/Harris will spend on talent at the moment of truth, or cheap out on it, is to live through an entire competitive cycle of build/compete/rebuild, and we are still only in the “build” portion of the current cycle. If we go through this window and learn, I’d guess by 2029 or 2030 or so, that Ilitch and Harris are content to cycle through talent, never pay anyone, never sign anyone or make audacious trades of potential for proof, and be content maybe making the playoffs every once in a while and winning a wild card series every blue moon, then I will sadly come to the same conclusion about Ilitch, Harris, and the Tigers that so many have already come to, and bonus, I will publicly admit right here that you were right all along and I have no idea what the hell I’m talking about. 😉

What conclusion is that?

Just looked it up now.  426 pages.  

2 hours ago, Edman85 said:

Be careful using Wikipedia. Best to just go straight to the CBA itself.

tldr

1 hour ago, gehringer_2 said:

Yeah - sometimes it's the supposed 'good guys' on a team that create the toxicity for everyone else who sees things a little differently. For instance, I don't necessarily see James McCann as the good guy in his altercation with Iglesias. Jose had had hardships and taken real risks in his life McCann couldn't dream of and if Jose didn't look at a baseball game as life and death he had earned that right. Didn't mean he wasn't giving you his best on the field.

They might need a bad boy on the team.  They are one of the most vanilla teams I've ever seen.  😄 

17 minutes ago, AlaskanTigersFan said:

Dudes toxic as all get out. Do you really want him near the "kids" on this team? 

That's been the assumption with him, but the the Astros have performed well over the years with him on the team.  So, I don't really have an opinion on whether he would be a good teammate.  I know about the incident with the catcher last year, but it might be an isolated incident where he lost his temper or maybe others on the team hated the catcher too.  Who knows?  If the Tigers signed him, I would assume he was not a problem.  I doubt we'll have to worry about that though.  

25 minutes ago, Tenacious D said:

I disagree that the Paredes trade was pure garbage—at the time it was mostly celebrated.  Not sure that you can anticipate a young ball player who was playing at a high level having mental health challenges that would prevent him from ever playing again.  I can’t think of one other MLB player in that situation, so it’s easy to call that one bad luck.

If I remember correctly, the majority of people here liked that trade.  

Just now, Edman85 said:

People realize Candelario bottomed out the last two years, right? The Reds cut him after 1.5 years of very negative WAR production. Granted, the year of control he was non-tendered was pretty productive for the Nats and Cubs. I just want to make sure it is known just how bad he got on his contract with the Reds.

We all know.  

7 minutes ago, 1984Echoes said:

If it's McGonigle, Clark, Briceno, or Jobe (if they reach that level)...

Then...

Yes.

What about Skubal?  

Just now, chasfh said:

I flat-out quoted you saying people who debate critiques of Harris "get so sensitive". The "incredibly thin-skinned" comment was directed at me by someone else.

Yes, I did say that you were acting sensitively.  What you got wrong was why I was saying that.  😄

6 minutes ago, chasfh said:

And I don't understand why people who defend Harris's executing his well-documented plan are considered sensitive, or otherwise incredibly thin-skinned.

That's not what I said.  I think that saying everyone wants wants Harris gone every time he gets questioned makes you appear sensitive.  

2 minutes ago, chasfh said:

Are you saying it's Harris's fault for making the trades, thus putting the team with a 1% chance of making the playoffs on July 31 in a position where it was almost impossible to win? Or are you saying it's Harris's fault that the team had a 1% chance to make the playoffs on July 31 in the first place and Hinch saved his bacon? I just want to make sure I'm raking Harris for the right reason for endeavoring to screw up 2024.

He was right to make the deadline trades and lucky that things turned out different than planned.  I think it's disingenuous to suggest that the way they made the playoffs that year was part of some grand scheme by Harris.  That season was a lot of fun, but it was lucky and won't be repeated.  It's interesting that the 2025 was pretty much the mirror image of 2024 which I think is more the ramdomness of baseball than anything they did wrong.  

3 minutes ago, Sports_Freak said:

Letting Candelario walk was his first mistake. We've been looking for a 3rd baseman ever since. Is Nick Maton available? <ducks>

Even Chas thought that was a mistake.  

2 minutes ago, oblong said:

That sounds a lot more subjective than you typically are. To have that as a standard would require some kind of knowledge of potential moves that he willingly passed on. The only one we can legit infer was when he all but admitted the price for Suarez would have been Melton.  It’s too “intangible-ish” for my liking.  Like reaching for something to criticize him for.  

I am very objective when it comes to player evaluatilon.  Some posters here are very interested in the management side of the game and I like that about them.  I am mostly interested in players though.  I can't say what specific moves they should have made or should be making now.  I just have an overall sense that Harris is very conservative and doesn't like to take risks compared to other GMs.  I'd like to see him do more, but once the season starts, I pretty much accept what the roster is and enjoy the games.  

22 minutes ago, oblong said:

Too many people here think baseball is stratomatic where outcomes are binary. There’s strategy, philosophy, long term goals, internal processes.  I guess you are all right. Scott Harris sucks donkey balls.  You can go back to the glory days of Randy Smith and Jose Macias. At least he had a plan. 
Quit listening to talk radio and twitter.  Those folks don’t know ****  

 

Again, I think Harris is a good GM and I Iike his overall plan.  I just think he is very rigid and I would prefer that he took more risks.  I don't understand why people get so sensitive to any critique of Harris at all.  

21 minutes ago, chasfh said:

Class is dismissed on that one. The final exam answer was that it's wrong.

A top executive in a multi-billionaire dollar business fails to make one of the biggest deals of his tenure.  I guess "there was nothing he could do about it" is a fair excuse.

2 minutes ago, oblong said:

How do you know Harris didn’t have any input?  They literally said, at the time-not after the fact,  they got together to plan out the rest of the years pitching plan  due to the shortages.  Sure it was some luck but it happened and they won the games. 
 

I don’t have the secret decoder that tells me which wins and losses a POBO is responsible for and which are not.  All I know is since he’s taken over things have been a lot of fun at Comerica Park.   Some people don’t like his hair or something like that. 

He may have had input in their desperation run, but the fact is he traded key pieces at the trade deadline.  You can maybe give him credit for giving Hinch the OK to execute pitching chaos, but he put the team in a position where it was almost impossible to win.  I simply don't believe the plan was to trade two of their best pitchers at the deadline and then win with pitching chaos.  That was an experiment to help them get through the season and a miracle happened.  They kind of tried it again in the second half of 25 and it didn't work.  2024 was a lot of fun, but it was luck.  

7 hours ago, buddha said:

otoh, he got played by eduardo rodriguez. 

uh oh, you are going to be lectured!

1 hour ago, oblong said:

You can’t not give credit to Harris for the end of ‘24 and pretend it’s all due to Hinch and Fetter.  That’s now how modern orgs work. The front office doesn’t just hand off the players and keep their nose in the spreadsheet.    

You can say that about 25, but 24 was a fluke that will never be repeated again.  Harris gave up on the season that year.  Any credit for that season goes to Hinch and Fetter, but even that was largely luck.  

4 hours ago, chasfh said:

Sounds like "no" to me! 😉

Yeah, it probably would have gotten a "he won't sign here" from you.  

2 hours ago, chasfh said:

That’s fine. Three years is too long for some people to give him. Get him out of there, next man up. We’re gonna die soon so come on hop to it already. I get it.

I’m willing to give him more time to let the plan unspool.

I think most opinions here fall somewhere between "get him out of here" and being 100% satisfied with what he's doing.  I may be closer to the latter than you think, but I still would like to see him do more.  

1 hour ago, AlaskanTigersFan said:

Is anyone worried

Not worried, but missing the playoffs is a real possibility.  

21 minutes ago, papalawrence said:

I'm beginning to think Harris' plan includes no pitchers get over 2 years and the starting rotation will consist of players under team control and perpetual patch work

I think that too.  It is not a terrible approach as pitchers are fragile, but I would still like to see them take chances once in a while.  Imai wasn't really on my radar though.  

15 minutes ago, chasfh said:

Looks like everyone is worried they're going to miss the playoffs!

When's daddy coming home?

I think they have a good chance of making it, so I'd like them to improve their chances while skubal is still here.  

20 minutes ago, chasfh said:

Anyone in particular on your wish list?

Yes