Betrayer

Weaver's there now. He did the same thing in 2020, another draft that was touted as "very bad" going into draft day.

Sorry, the 61% was a mis-read on my part. It was a comparison of Green and Holland. Holland's was 56.5% (G-League splits their stats, so you have to look at Regular season and Showcase). I knew Vecenie was lower on Holland than others I've seen. However, it is interesting to see Sam call out his defensive anticipation when I just watched two Holland breakdown videos saying the exact opposite, especially in regards to his steals. Seems like we're all learning about this player as we go. I would much rather have moved down and taken a similar player (or Carter) while gaining assets. I had Holland higher than Matas, but not this high. But at the same time I didn't want a role player (Knecht), because that's a waste of a draft pick on a 14 win team. In the end, I can't be mad at the pick, it's a swing for the fences on a high upside guy. The thing I think people need to wrap their head around is that we shouldn't be thinking of this draft pick in terms of how he fits into the starting lineup in October and how many wins he gets us in 2024-25. That was the Weaver way. Instead, he should be playing about 10 minutes per game in a developmental role. Then you go out and get some vets for the short term.

This doesn't quite match what I'm seeing in draft breakdowns of Holland. They had him essentially playing PG with a ton of usage, so his turnovers were very bad to start the season - that's not his NBA role. His ability to slash and his moves getting to the basket are mostly what I'm seeing people praise, especially compared to Ausar who's handle is really bad. He's a much better offensive player than Ausar and averaged about 20ppg with a 61.3 TS%. Got to the line a ton (top 10 in the G-League). Also seeing that he was a pretty good defender who gambled a bit too much, but had plenty of lock-down moments, steals, and blocks. Not sure I've heard anyone say he's "really bad" in that regard. Clearly Ausar has the potential to be an elite defender and I'm not trying to say Holland is a world beater at all, but I think you might be underselling him a bit here.

JJ just selected himself to the Lakers (Knecht).

I’m glad they didn’t let Carter fall to the Heat.

He’s probably thinking that a draft pick doesn’t have to be a year one starter. Swing for the fences and let the kid develop over a couple years. You can’t teach athleticism, but you can teach shooting (sometimes). In the meantime, actually make trades and get free agent vets to help your team for the short term while the kids develop - something that Weaver never did. If Holland is starting, something went wrong (again). I still think there might have been a better move here with a trade down, but I do understand the logic behind taking a swing in the draft for a team that really needs to find potential All-Stars.

He’s a Forward, but your point still stands.

Woj just said that Memphis was working the phones non-stop to try to get Clingan until he was drafted by Portland at 7 and they pivoted to Edey. Maybe they didn’t offer enough, but clearly the interest was there.

Looks like Chicago didn’t have to move up to get Matas after all. Let’s see if they take him.

Wow Memphis wanted Clingan so bad they took Eddy this high!!!

Dillingham looks like a 12 year old. So small and thin.

I’m most disappointed that they didn’t use this opportunity to gain more assets. I don’t hate Holland. He’s a pure upside swing for the fences. I’d take him over Matas. I just think he would have been there later and I’d rather have had Carter and assets.

Vinson is about to pull a Dan Burke and not show up for work.

Couldn’t find a trade? Holland would’ve been there at 9 probably. Took a big swing on an athlete who can’t shoot. Vinson needs a raise and hasn’t even started yet.

Ok, now find a trade!

Looking like Clingan will be there for a trade…unless SA finds a way to screw us. Hopefully they take Castle as predicted.

Do things get interesting at #3 with Houston or do they just take Reed like everyone has predicted since the lottery?

That’s free agency these days. Not sure I believe Detroit was ever going to pursue him with Trajan’s plans to acquire assets anyway. I wouldn’t have minded him, but I’m kinda happy we aren’t spending money on a Center.

He's been asked to do everything on offense and he's young, but he's far from a 1 way player. He's actually shown some very good defensive potential and switchability due to his size and length. Consistency will be the key, as will good coaching and a real roster. Turnovers were an issue early in the season. Not so much later in the season. He wound up averaging 3.4 even after a rough start, which is a touch higher than you want in the long run but not crazy for a second year guy with that kind of usage. For reference, Luka averages 4 for his career.

I love draft picks as well, so I understand this line of thinking. However, this just gets us a bunch of draft picks in the hopes of getting a player...who's as good as Cade. But we won't, because we're not finding a Cade level player no matter how many picks we get in the late 20s of the first round. Those guys come from high lottery picks.

The Wizards might have an open roster spot for him.

His comp is Walker Kessler.

I know you're joking, but there's a lot of truth here. Much like Weaver with Wiseman, I'm sure there are a lot of GMs who had Duren and Ivey very high on their draft board and still see the potential. It actually helps that Pistons organization has been a joke because they might think they can unlock those young players in a better system. The farther you get from the draft, the more the shine of "potential" wears off. Langdon has to ask himself if he sees the long term fit of these players. If not, and you reduce their role this season, then their value only goes down from here. Plus, you have to deal with their contracts or you have to convince another team to deal with it on a shorter timeline.

Last chance before it all kicks off at the draft tonight. We all love to sit back and criticize what this organization does (and for good reason), but what's YOUR plan for the off-season? Based upon what I heard from Langdon at the press conference, here's what I'm thinking: COACH: I'm doing whatever I can to bring Chris Quinn in here. They talked about building a culture of accountability and a foundation for winning. That guy has seen it and hopefully absorbed it all from Spo and the Heat organization. DRAFT: Trade down with Memphis (Clingan), San Antonio, or Portland for their pick and a future asset. Draft Devin Carter. TRADE 1: Take on Capella's remaining year (22M) from the Hawks in exchange for a future asset. Gives you a rim protector and someone that Duren can learn from. TRADE 2: Take on Wiggins' salary (~28M/2yr+1 player option) from the Warriors for future assets. Buy low on a solid forward who can space the court and defend to help you improve in the short term. TRADE 3: If Ivey wasn't in any of the above trades, you probably still need to move him for future assets. FREE AGENCY 1: You have about 15M-18M left after absorbing those contracts. Go get a veteran 3 and D wing like KCP, Trent Jr, Bruce Brown, etc. Another option here is, if you believe in Grimes as your future KCP, just keep him and use that 15-18M to absorb another contract like THJ for more future assets. FREE AGENCY 2: You can re-sign Fontecchio after all of that since you own his rights. Do so. DUREN: You can decide Duren's fate closer to the deadline. Maybe by mid-season he's starting again if he develops his defense. Maybe he's on the trade block. Either way, you've moved him to more of a developmental role and limited your worry about having to extend him for big money. LINEUP: PG - Cade, Carter SG - KCP (or THJ/Grimes), Carter SF - Wiggins, Ausar PF - Tek, Stewart C - Capella, Duren, Stewart YEAR ONE: You've added shooting, defense, vets who can play, and created a roster that makes sense on the court. Other than Cade, your youngsters are developing off the bench and not relied upon as heavily. Hopefully, you've also added a better coach. This is a 28-32 win team in the East, just outside of the play-in. You've shown improvement and gained about 5 future assets, while still getting a good pick in the 2025 draft. YEAR TWO: -Option 1: If Cade (and the other youngsters) are developing into something special, you're now fighting for a play-in spot. At the trade deadline or during the off-season, you start exploring trades to use the assets you've accumulated and Wiggins expiring contract to bring in a second star. -Option 2: If Cade (and others) didn't develop as you'd hoped, then you've got a head start on the rebuild. You don't have any long term contracts besides Cade and you've already started accumulating draft assets for the future.