Edman85

1 hour ago, chasfh said:

You want video? OK.

 

Same video they showed during the game.

There is no controversy because literally no one is claiming that he swung after all.

The umpire botched it. I'm not blaming him for the loss, because the Giants made their share of fatal mistakes (Doval in the ninth?). But the umpire's botched call sealed the loss and robbed the Giants of overcoming their own mistakes.

 

 

What rule in the rulebook says that is not a swing?

Basically... if you take a screenshot of a swing, the odds of it getting the furthest point of the swing are infimitsemial and you are likely seeing something on the way to or on the way.

If you are measuring the flange of an aircraft bulkhead that has a blend in it, taking calipers to measure it will take the maximum thickness and miss the blend.

Ah... the aerospace structures repair engineer in me came through.

Tough for me to explain via words.

1 hour ago, chasfh said:

Are we seriously litigating what a check swing is?

Regardless that a check swing is not defined in the rule book, it is not left up to umpire discretion, either. It's been long accepted that the check swing line goes directly out from the batter, perpendicular from the line running from the pitcher's plate on the mound to home plate. If the bat crosses that line, it's a swing. If it doesn't, it's not.

The photo of the swing showed that Flores's bat fell short of that line, and in no baseball world is the point at which he stopped the bat considered a swing.

The umpire made a mistake.

No photo is going to be conclusive. It is a snapshot and given the mechanics of a check swing is likely to be before or after the time the swing changed directions. Kinda like measuring thickness with calipers.

By the way, the answer to my question earlier... here's a sample of some roster moves for free agents this past february:

2/16: Pirates signed Tyler Anderson. Placed Jose Soriano on the 60-day IL

2/16: Marlins signed Adam Duvall. Placed Jeff Brigham on the 60-day IL

2/16: Giants signed Jake McGee. Placed John Brebbia on the 60-day IL

2/16: Rays signed Rich Hill. Placed Colin Poche on the 60-day IL

2/17: Padres signed Mark Melancon. Placed Trey Wingenter on the 60-day IL

2/17: Mariners signed James Paxton. Placed Andres Munoz on the 60-day IL

2/17: Padres signed Keone Kela. Placed Mike Clevinger on the 60-day IL

2/18: Dodgers signed Justin Turner. Placed Caleb Ferguson on the 60-day IL

2/19: Mets signed Taijuan Walker. Placed Noah Syndergaard on the 60-day IL

2/22: Yankees signed Brett Gardner. Placed Luis Severino on the 60-day IL

2/22: Rays signed Chaz Roe. Placed Yonny Chirinos on the 60-day IL.

2/22: Rays signed Collin McHugh. Placed Oliver Drake on the 60-day IL.

.....

When spring training starts, teams can stash players on the 60-day IL. They have extra roster space. In this era of extending the roster and shuttling players back and forth, teams are maximizing their 40 man roster.

Back-end borderline 40 man roster guys don't really have much offseason value when 40-man roster spots are so precious that teams wait until February to make their free agent moves.

That is why if the Tigers trade for somebody like DeJong, it will likely be a reliever or two a ways off.

The thing Duvall and Canha have that I like is that they are right-handed. It makes it easier to mix and match with Baddoo and Greene if it comes to that.

Question for those of you throwing out Goodrum, Harold, Willi, or Carlton out there as trade bait...

There is something that happens in mid February that opens up the free agency floodgates. Do you know what it is? My hint: look at transaction logs around that time the last few years.

Once you see what that is, you will see why those guys likely have next to no if not negative trade value right now 

DeJong would cost a low A reliever at most. His contract and status make his trade value minimal.

None of the Goodrum/Castro/Castro triumvirate has trade value. Goodrum is a likely non-tender. Harold has none. Willi may have some, but you don't sell low on him until you have to.

14 minutes ago, SoCalTiger said:

They could trade for Paul DeJong of the Cardinals. Poor hitter but great glove and was 1.6 war last year. Then load up on pitching. After all the expensive free agents shortstops get signed then circle back and try to trade for good minor league shortstop thats blocked even if they are two years away. 

Not a terrible idea, depending on if they can diagnose his downturn this year and see if he is a rebound candidate. Seems like a buy low guy, under contract for a couple years, and on the outs. It may be a situation where he doesn't cost much too acquire either.

Why is "past the plate" a demarcation of a swing?

Does this mean a check swing is dependent upon how far up in the box a batter is?

48 minutes ago, Archie said:

I hate to see any game end on an official call especially when its a bad call.  I usually hate 1B and 3B umps making these calls because they get them wrong a lot.  The ump should have erred on the safe side that wouldn't have ended the game.  Now he will be forever known in SF as the guy who screwed up the series with a bad call.

So if the ump errs on the safe side and the Giants win, does he screw over the Dodgers? How is that fair?

Why was it not a swing?

8 hours ago, lordstanley said:

Bad check swing call goes against the Giants, what a feeble way to end a season.

How can you say it is a bad check swing call when there is literally no definition of what a swing is?

I may have had the option year info wrong on the Acuna post... trying to wrap my head around it.

I want to do the Chris Sale example too...

Contract signed 2013, his last year pre-arb. (p.s. most of these deals happen in spring training)

2013: $850K

2014: $3.5M

2015: $6M

2016: $9.15M

2017: $12M

2018: $12.5M (Option, $1M Buyout)

2019: $13.5M (Option, $1M Buyout, increased to $15M with Cy Young incentives)

Traded before the 2017 season, so while he as making $12M that year, his CBT number was $6.5M. The Red Sox could get him without blowing through the tax... thus they were willing to give up a bit more for him.

23 hours ago, Archie said:

Some people already have Greene and Tork penciled in as MLB stars but they haven't even played in the bigs yet.  All of us, including myself hope they are the answer to some of the Tiger problems but its possible one or both will not be successful major league players.  Tigers would be smart to hold off on big contracts until they can see what they can do in Detroit.

I can think of three of these long term pre-arb extensions that haven't worked out, out of the dozens that have happened. (Singleton, Kingery, Tabata). There is some risk, but it is the smart thing to do if Tork and Greene are amenable to it. They are about as low risk as prospects who haven't hit the bigs get. Worst comes to worst, they are okay players you are on the hook for 5-6 years down the road.

Take Ronald Acuna for example

2019: $1M

2020: $1M

2021: $5M

2022: $15M

2023: $17M

2024: $17M

2025: $17M

2026: $17M

2027: $17M option ($10M buyout)

2028: $17M option

The AAV on the deal comes out to $12.5M (the buyout on the option in 2027 plays into this, if you are checking my math) so the Braves take a $11.5M hit on the luxury tax in 2019-2020 when they aren't likely to be paying it to save $4.5M against it in 2023-2026 when their players may be getting expensive or they need to hit free agency. Also, due to the way the buyouts work, his CBT number in 2027 is $7M that year.

There are several examples of this. Chris Sale: the White Sox did this with him and were able to get Yoan Moncada for him. Why? Because his CBT number was low and the Red Sox were up against the CBT cap.

The Tigers went year to year with guys and it killed them when they got good. Bear in mind the competitive balance tax is not just a tax on the owner, draft pick compensation is affected (why the Tigers got a pile of scraps for JD Martinez, because they were only getting a 4th rounder for him), as are the competitive balance draft picks and international bonus pool.

45 minutes ago, RandyMarsh said:

Not sure if Tork or Kriedler will get another at bat, if not Tork finishes 1-4(double) and a walk. Kriedler 1 for 3 with a walk. Not eye popping by any means but what was encouraging is that they combined for only 1 K(Kriedler).

Considering the MLB quality stuff the competition had I think that is a positive thing. 

Be careful jumping to this conclusion in AFL games.

Also be careful jumping to this conclusion because you've heard of the prospect who started. He fell off the planet this year.

44 minutes ago, mtutiger said:

The playoffs have been pretty enlightening in terms of how far behind the local broadcast is PBP wise.

Brian Anderson and Don Orsillo are just lightyears better than ol' Shep.... and even the non-Buck Fox folks aren't too bad either.

Obviously the creme de la creme get picked for playoffs... or I should say the available creme de la creme.

I stumbed across some Orioles games this year, and they have their own version of Shep.

Repeat after me, everybody penciling him into next year's rotation:

Wily

Peralta

Is

A

Free

Agent

The Tigers re-upped with Bally Sports going forward.

I wonder if they got the payday they hoped for. I know they were exploring an RSN, but RSN's have kinda taken a dive with cord cutting the past few years.

All this talk of extensions, but assuming the competitive balance tax stays as is, the Tigers would be wise to get Tork and Greene signed to extensions that cover their arb years and maybe a year or two of free agency. Those contracts tend to be progressive, meaning that by year 5 or 6 they are likely going to be in the 15-25 million range if things go well, but if they are part of an extension, the AAV includes the years making the minimum. So while they would be making that 15-25, they would only count like 6 against the tax.

1 hour ago, Archie said:

Charlie Morton in going on 3 days rest in Atlanta. I like watching them do the chop in Atlanta so a few people can complain. Hope they can close it out today.  It will be tough if they have to go back to Milwaukee.

The carping gets to me, but they have a point. The chop didn't start until the 90's or so when Deion brought it from Florida State, so it isn't like it is some grandfathered-in tradition.

1 hour ago, oblong said:

I’m a big fan of AJ Pierzynski’s work in the booth.  He brings good insight. 

I had this realization this week, and it surprised me when I had it. Wainwright is good too.

1 hour ago, oblong said:

Trump didn’t do shit for the vaccine’s development. 

I actually disagree for this, and love how shit isn't censored.

The vaccine as able to be developed so quickly because so many people got the virus and helped the developers achieve statistical significance. He helped with development in that regard.

As far as distribution, his lack of planning and care for the American people was showing itself there big time.

3 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

Yeah - the rules are fine. Unfortunately, it often seems the Umpires are maybe a little tight when they are calling them....

 

🍷🍷🍷

They nailed both of the controversial calls last night.

Luis Garcia's motion on the other hand...

The announcers don't know jack about the rules.