RedRamage

On a side note to my side note to this discussion (dang it... I'm double derailing my own thread!) I would have LOVED to see what Stafford would have done on the current Lions team. This would be purely to answer the question of whether Stafford really was a great NFL QB, or just a great Lions QB. Of course this is completely impossible because the current Lions team is built, in a significant part, on the trade happening. Without that we don't have some of the key pieces so there's no way to just swap Stafford and Goff and think: "what if the trade doesn't happen..." The Lions success right now is tied to that trade in a meaningful way.

Passing yards aren't really a good comparison between generations. Certainly Goff and Stafford are contemporaries so comparing their passing yards and TDs is fine and 100% valid. It's when you start comparing 2020s NFL stats with 1950s NFL stats where it gets more dicey. You missed a number in your reply to me so I don't know if you were saying Goff would move ahead of Stafford, I can't really disagree. I don't think he moves ahead of Layne. Even a SB win in 2024 won't put him over Layne in my humble opinion. I think a SB win does put him above Clark. Right now I think I have 'em: 1. Layne 2. Clark 3.4 Stafford 3.6 Goff Give me two more good seasons of Goff and another playoff win and I'd put him ahead of Stafford as greatest Lion QB ranking. (You could probably make the case that Goff > Stafford right now career wise. But as Lions QB, Goff doesn't have the longevity yet.)

Total side discussion... but what would it take to to declare Goff the greatest QB of the Lions of all time? Right now I'd place him anywhere between 2 and 4 depending on the day and how persuasive the various supporters are. Layne still has to be #1 given what he did with the Lions. After that I think you can make the case for Clark, Stafford, or Goff. Clark would be a clear #2 if he played a little longer and/or had one more championship. I still think he's the front runner for the #2 spot. Stafford has more years with the Lions, Goff has more post season success. How much is Stafford's lack of success with the Lions due to the front office and coaching staff generally being bad? How much of Goff's success is because the front office and coaching staff is good? Hard to say. (Disclaimer here: I am NOT saying Goff is only good because of the team built around him, but there's NO QUESTION that the current FO and CS is better than we've see in the past and this will give ANY QB a boost.)

If you're talking strictly position players and looking at their total career, you might actually be right.

Thread over. This is the winner right here.

Anyone who played for the Tigers is included, though it's would be measured on their time as a Tiger.

A little project I'm working on that I need opinions on the top three RedWings of all time. Try not to let recency bias effect your decision as much as possible. I'm figuring Gordie Howe has to be in the top three if not #1 over all. Stevie-Y in there as well?

A little project I'm working on that I need opinions on the top three Pistons of all time. Try not to let recency bias effect your decision as much as possible. I really know very little about the Pistons so any help would be appreciated.

A little project I'm working on that I need opinions on the top three Tigers of all time. Try not to let recency bias effect your decision as much as possible. I'm thinking #1 and #2 are Ty Cobb and Al Kaline, but I'm open to being persuaded if you think otherwise.

A little project I'm working on that I need opinions on the top three Lions of all time. Try not to let recency bias effect your decision as much as possible. I think Barry Sanders has to be in there for sure. Calvin Johnson? Bobby Layne? I'm tempted to put in Dutch Clark just because he's my favorite old-timey Lion, but he wasn't with the Lions for a long, long time. He did get them their first Championship though... I dunno.

Bates with a 48 yarder... looked like it was taller than the uprights when it crossed.

In case anyone was wondering where Jason Benetti was today instead of calling the Tigers game... he's actually calling the Panthers game today in Texas!

I'm really no fan of it either. I have ZERO problem with them putting in on after he died to remember him... love him or hate him (or just dislike his ownership style) he was still a owner for a major period of time and it's fine to recognize that a memorialize him for a year... but after that? No reason to keep in going for years and years and years. He didn't found the Lions. He didn't revolutionize anything in the game or the league. At best you can say he may have keep the league somewhat afloat with Ford advertisements before the NFL became the powerhouse it is now.

I heard they're adding WCF to helmet.

HATE the black lion helmet. Put the retro helmet in place of the black lion and I think I'd go for it.

I add this to my very, very long list of reasons while I'll never want to run for office.

Tin foil hate time: They leaked fakes in order to keep people from trying to find other leaks and/or discredit other potential leaks.

While I won't say that I love the blacks, I don't really mind them either. And I think they work very nicely with the Blue Helmet... much better than the all grey unis with the Blue Helmet. If they did the blacks once or twice a year... I'd be okay with that. I'm with @lordstanley that the all grey's were kinda yuck. And @Motown Bombers If they exclusively wear the Blue Helmets with the black jerseys that might explain the blue numbers more.

I absolutely love them... or they are the ugliest thing ever.

So far this year the Tigers have never lost a game when Javy got a walk. Last year the Tigers were 13 and 9 in games with a Javy walk... which doesn't seem all that special except that a 0.590 winning percentage vs. the Tigers over all 2023 winning percentage of 0.481. Clearly the Tigers fate is heavy dependent on Baez's ability to draw walks... which is a bad thing.

Thanks for all this! This is great stuff. Which of course means you now need to do that at the end of each month of the season so we can track this as the summer progresses.

This is kinda what I'm feeling. I'm not expecting HOF caliber hitting just because a coach alters a guys hand position or anything... but it feels like even our guys who were highly touted are hitting, often, well below league average. I'm sure I'm not looking at this 100% objectively, and again I'm certainly not trying to blame ONLY coaches. I know it more complex than that. But I'll just quote kdog again: "Why are Tork, Meadows, and Keith this bad?"

First, let's get the disclaimers out of the way: I know it's early. I know that the Tigers generally start slow. I know the Tigers have a winning record right now, and yes I'm happy about that. I know that hitting is complex and the right answer is going to be multiple people, not just one instance. Okay, all that said: Why so the Tigers suck so bad at hitting? 27th place in OPS, 28th in SLG, 26th in OBP. 9th highest strike out total while tied for 20th in walks drawn. And least you think I'm being too biased on recent play, the Tigers were 28th in OPS last year and 29th in OPS in 2022. I guess I should be happy we're moving up a slot each year?? So where do we start assigning blame? The front office's stance is that we want to control the strike zone. But clearly weren't not. Bottom third of the league in strike outs and just outside bottom third of the league in walks. To be fair the front office is likely hindered by semi-tight purse strings and a bad team, making free agents less thrilled with coming here, so it's hard to get too upset... but it still feels like we have a lot of "meh" players and all we added in the off season was a couple more "meh" players. The coaching staff seems to be onboard with the front office's desire to control the strike zone, but if they're preaching it to players, the players don't seem to be getting the message. I fully understand that these are professional ball players who earn massive amounts of money and should be motivated and working to improve. Sure, fine... but we have coaches for a reason, right? If the coaches can't identify the issues and help the players correct the flaws... or they can and the players are just ignoring them... why do we keep them around? Which of course brings us to the players. Ultimately they're the ones who need to perform at the plate and they aren't. Is it because they don't have the talent? Is it because they're getting bad advice/coaching? Are they forgetting everything they're being directed on before the game and just flailing at the plate? As I mentioned at the beginning I know this is a complex answer that can't be a simple: It's "X's" fault. That said, I feel there is something missing in the coaching staff area. As great as our pitching coaches has done elevating and improving out pitchers, I feel like our hitting coaches bring nothing to the table. If it was one or two or even 5 hitters not getting the job done, I'd look more a the players, but right now we have all of 4 players with an OBP over 800 (and one of those, Perez, has only played in 4 games). We only have one player with double digit talks (Greene) but he's also tied with the most strike outs, beating out even Baez on the team. Everyone has a part of the blame in our woes at the plate, but I can't help feeling like out coaching staff is doing nothing to improve our guys. I'm putting the more blame there than the other two spots.

Wasn't able to pay too much attention to the game this week, but here's my summary from what I did see and looking at stats after the game: Offensively the Panthers finally figured out that you're allowed to score in the first quarter... granted they only got 3 points, but still that's 3 points more than they got in the first quarter in their previous two games. Slow starts for the offense have be a problem with the Panthers, so it's nice to see any points at the start of a game. The 3 point of course came off Jake Bates foot, but it was a paltry 46 yard FG, so nothing special at all. The Panthers got a TD later in the 2nd qtr and finished the half with a 55 yard Bates FG. In the 3rd qtr the Panthers exploded, scoring their 1st of 3 TDs this quarter in the first 23 seconds of the second half. They didn't do much in the 4th qtr but entering that spot they were leading 34 to 14, so it's pretty clear they were trying to milk the clock more than trying to score. Defensively after a lackluster game last week, they pick thing up quite a bit this week. They did another very good job of stopping the run, allowing just 63 yards on the ground. Only 2 sacks, but 7 tackles for a loss, so that was nice to see. Just like the offense the Panthers were hot in the 3rd qtr defensively. (Maybe Campbell should check in with them... maybe get some tips on 3rd qtr play?) After the Roughnecks got into the RedZone on a great return by the Roughnecks, the defense held them to a FG. On the next drive the defense forced a 3 and out. The Roughnecks are now 0-3, so the Panther should have beat them, so maybe it shouldn't be considered any great accomplishment. But they handled the opposition well and had a nice solid win. This was a good bounce back game after the shellacking they took last week against the Stallions (3-0). Next week is the first road game of the season for the Panthers. It will still be indoors but we'll see if Bates can keep his kicking game strong when on the road. It's a Saturday Game at 7pm. The following week with be Bates first time kicking outdoors in Memphis.

Just a 55 yarder so far for Bates... meh.