RedRamage

You're being disingenuous when you say that. Decker overlaps Stafford for 5 seasons (16-20) Glasgow overlaps Stafford for 4 seasons (16-19) Ragnow overlaps Stafford for 3 seasons (18-20) Jonah Jackson overlaps Stafford for 1 season (20) Let's give a point for each OL player from 2023 who played in each season with Stafford: 09: 0 - 10: 0 - 11: 0 - 12: 0 - 13: 0 - 14: 0 - 15: 0 - 16: 2 - 17: 2 - 18: 3 - 19: 3 - 20: 3 Out of a possible 60 points, we get 13. Saying "4th/5ths" is technically true because 4 of the 5 starters from 2023 did play at least one season with Stafford on the Lions. But it implies that Stafford had largely the same OL that Goff did through his career in Detroit, which is not even close to true.

I don't think anyone has ever made the claim that Stafford had nothing but trash as teammates. That said, on the whole, Goff has better talent surrounding him. The OL was never as good for Stafford as it is for Goff and that plays a MAJOR role in how good an offense can be.

AV only goes back to 1960, unfortunately, which means Layne does show up on the list because by 1960 he was in Pittsburgh.

On a side note to my side note to this discussion (dang it... I'm double derailing my own thread!) I would have LOVED to see what Stafford would have done on the current Lions team. This would be purely to answer the question of whether Stafford really was a great NFL QB, or just a great Lions QB. Of course this is completely impossible because the current Lions team is built, in a significant part, on the trade happening. Without that we don't have some of the key pieces so there's no way to just swap Stafford and Goff and think: "what if the trade doesn't happen..." The Lions success right now is tied to that trade in a meaningful way.

Passing yards aren't really a good comparison between generations. Certainly Goff and Stafford are contemporaries so comparing their passing yards and TDs is fine and 100% valid. It's when you start comparing 2020s NFL stats with 1950s NFL stats where it gets more dicey. You missed a number in your reply to me so I don't know if you were saying Goff would move ahead of Stafford, I can't really disagree. I don't think he moves ahead of Layne. Even a SB win in 2024 won't put him over Layne in my humble opinion. I think a SB win does put him above Clark. Right now I think I have 'em: 1. Layne 2. Clark 3.4 Stafford 3.6 Goff Give me two more good seasons of Goff and another playoff win and I'd put him ahead of Stafford as greatest Lion QB ranking. (You could probably make the case that Goff > Stafford right now career wise. But as Lions QB, Goff doesn't have the longevity yet.)

Total side discussion... but what would it take to to declare Goff the greatest QB of the Lions of all time? Right now I'd place him anywhere between 2 and 4 depending on the day and how persuasive the various supporters are. Layne still has to be #1 given what he did with the Lions. After that I think you can make the case for Clark, Stafford, or Goff. Clark would be a clear #2 if he played a little longer and/or had one more championship. I still think he's the front runner for the #2 spot. Stafford has more years with the Lions, Goff has more post season success. How much is Stafford's lack of success with the Lions due to the front office and coaching staff generally being bad? How much of Goff's success is because the front office and coaching staff is good? Hard to say. (Disclaimer here: I am NOT saying Goff is only good because of the team built around him, but there's NO QUESTION that the current FO and CS is better than we've see in the past and this will give ANY QB a boost.)

If you're talking strictly position players and looking at their total career, you might actually be right.

Thread over. This is the winner right here.

Anyone who played for the Tigers is included, though it's would be measured on their time as a Tiger.

A little project I'm working on that I need opinions on the top three RedWings of all time. Try not to let recency bias effect your decision as much as possible. I'm figuring Gordie Howe has to be in the top three if not #1 over all. Stevie-Y in there as well?

A little project I'm working on that I need opinions on the top three Pistons of all time. Try not to let recency bias effect your decision as much as possible. I really know very little about the Pistons so any help would be appreciated.

A little project I'm working on that I need opinions on the top three Tigers of all time. Try not to let recency bias effect your decision as much as possible. I'm thinking #1 and #2 are Ty Cobb and Al Kaline, but I'm open to being persuaded if you think otherwise.

A little project I'm working on that I need opinions on the top three Lions of all time. Try not to let recency bias effect your decision as much as possible. I think Barry Sanders has to be in there for sure. Calvin Johnson? Bobby Layne? I'm tempted to put in Dutch Clark just because he's my favorite old-timey Lion, but he wasn't with the Lions for a long, long time. He did get them their first Championship though... I dunno.

Bates with a 48 yarder... looked like it was taller than the uprights when it crossed.

In case anyone was wondering where Jason Benetti was today instead of calling the Tigers game... he's actually calling the Panthers game today in Texas!

I'm really no fan of it either. I have ZERO problem with them putting in on after he died to remember him... love him or hate him (or just dislike his ownership style) he was still a owner for a major period of time and it's fine to recognize that a memorialize him for a year... but after that? No reason to keep in going for years and years and years. He didn't found the Lions. He didn't revolutionize anything in the game or the league. At best you can say he may have keep the league somewhat afloat with Ford advertisements before the NFL became the powerhouse it is now.

I heard they're adding WCF to helmet.

HATE the black lion helmet. Put the retro helmet in place of the black lion and I think I'd go for it.

I add this to my very, very long list of reasons while I'll never want to run for office.

Tin foil hate time: They leaked fakes in order to keep people from trying to find other leaks and/or discredit other potential leaks.

While I won't say that I love the blacks, I don't really mind them either. And I think they work very nicely with the Blue Helmet... much better than the all grey unis with the Blue Helmet. If they did the blacks once or twice a year... I'd be okay with that. I'm with @lordstanley that the all grey's were kinda yuck. And @Motown Bombers If they exclusively wear the Blue Helmets with the black jerseys that might explain the blue numbers more.

I absolutely love them... or they are the ugliest thing ever.

So far this year the Tigers have never lost a game when Javy got a walk. Last year the Tigers were 13 and 9 in games with a Javy walk... which doesn't seem all that special except that a 0.590 winning percentage vs. the Tigers over all 2023 winning percentage of 0.481. Clearly the Tigers fate is heavy dependent on Baez's ability to draw walks... which is a bad thing.

Thanks for all this! This is great stuff. Which of course means you now need to do that at the end of each month of the season so we can track this as the summer progresses.

This is kinda what I'm feeling. I'm not expecting HOF caliber hitting just because a coach alters a guys hand position or anything... but it feels like even our guys who were highly touted are hitting, often, well below league average. I'm sure I'm not looking at this 100% objectively, and again I'm certainly not trying to blame ONLY coaches. I know it more complex than that. But I'll just quote kdog again: "Why are Tork, Meadows, and Keith this bad?"