1984Echoes

I don't think the Lions need Harrison to become unstoppable. I think they can be JUST as deadly, with: Brian Thomas Adonai Mitchell Xavier Legette Amongst a list of several others that have huge "X" receiver ability, in this deep draft for WR's. IMO.

Exactly why I think they look at RB (the part I cut out of your quote): To improve upon Craig Reynolds. Nice glue guy and not a bad backup... But I think part of Holmes/ Campbell's strategy is to ALWAYS look for a RB because they get beat up so much that a team better have a decent "next man up" candidate whenever the inevitable NFL injury occurs. And I think the team will at least add competition to CR's backup spot. The part I left in my quoting of your above post: That's why I said they would need a trade down and extra picks before getting to RB, if they were to do so, as high as the 3rd round. IE: Trade down of 1st for a 2nd and 3rd = two 2nds and two 3rds. I agree with your list: Edge is a need and there are a few interesting candidates in the top 3 rounds. Loaded WR draft = excellent candidates first 3 rounds, same with CB and IOL. Particularly IOL that can play both Center and OG, which also aligns nicely with the Lions needs. I believe there are "Lions type of players" at all 4 of those spots, with huge amounts of talent/ domination/ "grit" skills to boot. But with the RB's virtually getting ignored... by the time we get to the 3rd round... NOW those top two RB's (Brooks and Benson) are going to have more talent than the 6th or 7th IOL, or CB, or WR, or Edge... so, if Holmes/ Campbell "LOVES" either of these guys, I think they get drafted ahead of another player that they love less just because the other spot is at a higher need. They've already proven that. Otherwise... I think if they keep the three-only top-3 round picks that we currently have, that there are enough CB's/ WR's/ Edge/ IOL's that they "love" that they stick to that and use a later pick on RB. Only if they add another pick or two do in the top 3 rounds does a RB come into play. Just my 2 cents.

Management team. And owner. And coaching staff. And plethora of players... All coming together in a swirl of excellence leading to a Super Bowl competitive team! Hell yes! "Dream come true." Yep!

PS: If we add a couple more mid-round picks, or maybe even if not... I would hazard a guess that Holmes calculates another risk and is willing to add another RB to the RB room with Benson in the 3rd (only with additional picks) or Corum in the 5th or 6th... Just a guess.

They are also "low value" not because what they do on the field isn't critical... it IS... but, because: 1. Long term value is not there as they get beaten up and used up faster than any other position on the team. 2. The heavy emphasis on the passing game has devalued them compared to prior eras... I don't agree that they are of "low value". I would put that differently: I would call it "calculated value". A RB is still needed in the NFL, believe it or not... so an Org has to "calculate" when to use a draft pick based on a much shorter longevity for that position, talent and impact on the team, etc... Holmes took a "calculated risk" selecting Gibbs at #12 and, so far, it's been worth it. A great career by Gibbs and it was absolutely worth it. IMO.

I wanna see that come November...

Stranger Things.

If a team is moving down and giving up a premium pick/ premium player... They better be getting "something" back that qualifies as premium. That's why buddha is correct: The mock trade with us moving down has us receiving the Raiders 2nd and 3rd round picks. If the value chart says we can offer our 2024 3rd, or 2025 3rd, or our two 4ths, and the "values" are all the same (just using that as an example...): Then the team moving down would pick the highest "premium" they could get, or the 2024 3rd rounder. It would be EXTREMELY unlikely that the trade down team would take the two 4th instead of the 2024 3rd... but... I'm just guessing.

Most likely. So that's not a very realistic mock. 0% sounds about right. But... IMO... the boldness is correctly placed.

Why does everyone keep making UNDERWHELMING choices for the Lions? Since when has Holmes drafted UNDERWHELMING? You just don't get it. Here... THIS is something that Holmes WOULD do: THAT is a Lions draft.

👍

Originally... I was REALLY high on Fautanu, JPJ and Barton... I would have taken them in the 1st and been pleased... But I've come around on the ability to be able to find other guys in the 3rd-5th that can be just or nearly as good... and so I'd rather draft the higher skill positions early and wait on IOL until the mid rounds. But I did have an early fascination with those three...

Looks like he's already on the 10-day... So there's the opportunity...

If Urshela is out for any period of time... I'd like to see Keith at 3rd and Wenceel at 2B. Call it one week or two week's worth. Just to see what happens. Wenceel spent most of his time in the minors at 2B, and has better speed/range there... I know there are some concerns about Keith's shoulder strength... but let's see it. On a short-term basis. Once Urshela gets back... Hinch can figure everything out. Which may include some Toledo time for Keith so he can get his bat straightened out... Just sayin'...

Yeah... I'm not so certain about that.

Especially if it could be timed right to have it at the same time as Cathy because... Well, she was just a real cutey. ... but I think I'm getting off-topic here...

Yeah... I probably stated that badly... I meant Compher at his best has never produced like Lindholm at his best. Compher tops out as a 50-point guy. Once. Lindholm in a BAD year gets 44. They're not in the same ballpark, and you KNOW that. But I did state that badly. And you very well may be right, I love the idea of Lindholm 2 years ago. But the flip side is that... Lindholm has actually produced at that level. And if he's a 2nd line Center on the Red Wings then he WOULD go against 2nd lines. And that's how he would be signed. Also... if Larkin went down another two weeks... I would actually have confidence that Lindholm could hold the fort down rather than the team imploding for the two weeks that Larkin misses. Additionally, with young talent on this team (Lindholm centering Kasper and Raymond? Cat? Compher?), I have some hope that an actual effective 2nd line could be created. Both ways. So... Sorry guys... But I'm stuck on Lindholm... And I'm only going to get worse... It's Lindholm or BUST!!! And I haven't even got to using font size 36 yet... But I WILL get to 36 pt sometime in the near future. Lindholm or BUST!!! (That will be on repeat, and keep getting louder, until Yzerman actually signs him...)

What happened to Urshela? 1 PA and he's replaced by Vierling? Injury?

Copp, Compher and Cat are on the team... So move on from the other guys and add Mazur and Kasper. They'll be better at the 2-way game than those removed.

Sebrango to me was always a "try-hard" guy. I never saw why the Org was high on him but, whatever... I don't think Tuomisto is in the same boat as Sebrango. Not even close. First off: not only was Sebrango a "try-hard" guy, he was a left shot. How was he possibly going to squeeze onto the Detroit roster? Again... I just never saw that, at all. Tuomisto's competition, as a right shot: Jeff Petry (36) and Justin Holl (32). The door is... ever so slightly, open for a right shot D to make the roster. Tuomisto is 23, a 6' 5" hard-hitting D'man (from scout reports as much as I can gather), not a great skater but passable, and a nasty hard shot that would fit on a PP2. I'm not SO HIGH on Tuomisto... but I would say that I am high enough on him to want to save salary, remove Holl and/or Petry, and throw him out there, at least as a 3rd pairing, to see if he can stick. I think he most likely would stick... but where he ends up at (#2 or #3 pairing, or back at Grand Rapids...) is an unknown to me. But I absolutely believe that he would not be worse than Petry or Holl.

So yes... I get that. It's definitely a risk... but a couple things: 1) When we signed Perron at 34, wasn't that chasing past production? Petry at 35? 2) He has a higher level of capability than Sprong or Perron. And it's not even close. 3) He also has more ability than Copp or Compher. They've never produced as he has, and they have never played at his level. But all 3 of those guys are the same age: 29. And Yzerman signed Copp and Compher... As far as I'm concerned... Lindholm is next. Or should be. 4) We're letting go of (most likely) Reimer 36, Kane 35, Perron 35, Gost 30... I think we need to replace that veteran leadership... with Lindholm. I'll be more blunt: This offseason, for me... It's Lindholm or BUST!!!

2024 Red Wings UFA's Gost: $ 4.1 Mill Perron: $ 4.75 Mill Kane: $ 2.75 Mill Sprong: $ 2 Mill Reimer: $ 1.5 mill Fischer: $ 1.125 mill TOTAL, PRE-RFA's - $ 17.2 mill. If Mazur, Kasper and Tuomisto are brought up... And Seider & Raymond sign extensions, and Cossa is at least considered the #3 Goalie (and therefore Reimer is no longer needed), and Edvinsson is designated a full-season D; then: The decisions would be: whether to let go of any RFA's (like Veleno), to trade or dump an extra salary or a few (such as Petry or Holl, and with Walman & Edvinsson the top two LHD's, even with Gost leaving as a UFA, why do we need both Maatta & Chiarot, when there's even the possibility that Wallinder and/ or Johansson is ready for NHL ice time? So at least ONE of those two needs to be moved... IMO). There are extra salary savings that can be had between RFA's and too many defenseman... I think we have room to chase a Lindholm, who, along with Kasper and Mazur, replace 3 of the forwards that we lose in the offseason. Also... I'll just throw this out there... Danielson is looking "SHARP!" so I believe he also has a real shot at making the 2024 roster. Lots of kids. Some high-end veteran help would be great to help lead this team into the playoffs. IMO. Larkin, plus Lindholm, and Raymond, DeBrincat, Copp, Compher, Mazur, Kasper, POSSIBLY Danielson... I think that's a nice top 9. Walman-Seider, Edvinsson-Holl, Maatta-Tuomisto, plus Wallinder/ Johansson/ and maybe even Buium waiting in the wings (sorry for the pun) ... That's young. A lot of youth there. But also size, speed & skill on the blue line. I'm comfortable with going into next year with that. We may even possibly be able to keep Fischer & Veleno as 4th line guys... I'll let Yzerman work out the details...

Yeah, that's on me for not paying enough attention... Lindholm scored 42 goals and 40 assists in 2022... Yeah, I know that's two years ago... But, just asking: Who on the Red Wings, aside from DeBrincat, has ever had a year like that? Lindholm?

No, it was a slip up. And "never mind" is a cop out.

If he were a Right shot the door would be OPEN for that possibility... I'm not talking about likelihood, that would be 100% the Org determining if he needed more seasoning first. Or not. But as a Left shot... he has a crapload more hurdles to get over before he could get that type of a shot (opening day Wings 2024-25 roster...). Those hurdles are named: Jake Walman. Shane Gostisbehere. Ben Chiarot. Simon Edvinsson. Olli Maatta (yes, even him). William Wallinder. and possibly even Albert Johansson. That is just a MUCH higher wall to climb than as a right-shot D for the Wings. Seider is #1. And then...? Petry? Holl? Tuomisto? And that's it?