alex

I can see 'some' of this for sure. However, I think each situation is different with each player. One good example is the Tigers signing of 'Pudge' Rodriguez in 2004. At that time Pudge just won the WS with Florida (2003). Nobody was offering him a long term deal (age, injury potential of his back, etc.) and he was seeking a longer term deal at 'that' point of his career. As I said before, I do think Bregman would actually come here. He himself said, while wearing a Boston uniform, in an interview at the beginning of last season that 'They (he and family) thought they may be going to Detroit'. We offered what he wanted, but did not give him an 'opt' out after one year. I still feel at best it is a 40% chance we sign Bregman. Yet the difference is 'he might actually come here.' However, it would not take the 8/300 you mentioned or even near that (maybe you exaggerated?). Offer him something like 5/160. With higher AAV earlier in the deal and an 'opt' out after each of the first two years. Make the first two years high at 40 mil and same 2nd year (then would owe 80 at 3 remaining years). Then he gets what he left on the table in Boston. He gets higher AAV the first two years. He can also get the security of longer term that he was 'said' to sought last year. If he does not wish to play in Detroit potentially without Skubal he can opt out (again, try to sign Skubal). As with last year, I do not think anyone is going to offer him more than 3 or 4 years (after all he is a year older and coming off another injury). With said he has to see that Detroit has a decent pipeline of younger players. He still may be the best fit for Detroit. A good veteran mentor and leader. RH contact bat for the middle of the order. Can play 3B well (later even 2B if needed). It could still work. Everyone has to see this. I say Bregman again with regards to FAs, because as said earlier I feel he really just might choose here IF the offer is enticing, which is unlike most other top FAs. With said, I would still go after P and make a run at Bichette (and maybe even Kim for INF help. Decent RH bat, speed, good glove).

I can see that as well. No doubt he is/has also talked to Jack Flaherty (his teammate for a few years), who thinks well of Fetters, A.J. and the organization.

Again, I am not pro-Avila here, but Norris for Reese Olson was a good deal. That is off the top of my head.

I will agree with this. I am not trying to be diplomatic here - but it is Avila's group mostly that we are working with. With said, I do not think he did a real good job with most areas of the franchise. Some here may think he really took us back and/or buried the franchise. I am not totally on board with that but to me he did NOT surround himself with the right people - and he needed to do just that. Scott Harris, all IMHO, is putting together a solid franchise from the ground up. I will say again he has really helped in several areas: scouting, player development, exercise and nutrition science gains on many fronts (rehab, recovery, etc.), facility upgrades, international look see, waiver wire 'potential' player pick-ups and more. However, I have said repeatedly, he has to show he can acquire MLB talent (not fringe MLB types). It has been apx three years now. We were not in the position 2-3 years ago to add. However, this team has now been to the post-season two straight years. Both times advancing. Most baseball pundits feel it is a talented team. Harris cannot give the previous statement we want to develop a core first (BTW, he has not done that lately). The Tigers can contend 'now'. It does not mean they will win a WS, but they can contend for it. With said they need to add some talented MLB players. Maybe another bat, a top RP or two and 'maybe' a solid starter. I have been questioning all along 'Can Harris add MLB talent, via trade or FA?' I would like to see it. The last trade deadline was nothing to write home about, it may have effected the team (cannot say for sure) but on the positive I feel it gave him some experience in dealing with several clubs GMs and hopefully he is better at evaluating real talent (our MLB scouts as well). So much of sports is a crap-shot. Injuries are one of the biggest factors (this is why depth is sooo important). The Tigers are close. They have Skubal for another year. The have a core. They have another wave coming of young players (and there will/should be less swing-and-miss). IMHO, Harris needs to add THIS off season MLB talent. It will be interesting to see what happens. If it shows up, that he does not have this knack, this skill set - then hopefully he can find someone to help him who can. That is also why I ask/question the ability of GM Greenberg just as much in THIS particular area.

Agreed, IMHO, if they see a real opportunity and without being public about it - they will at least try. I would think Bregman, Bichette, Kim, Arenado and a maybe couple others (an OF?) might be looked at.

Although I still think Bregman is the optimal target - Arenado might be a good addition. I know people here would say WAR, barrel %, not as good as he was, etc. but he is a pro. He has plenty of experience, could mentor by example and I think he really feels he has something to prove on his own. Heck, maybe SP Gray and him in a deal. StL more than likely would pick up a chunk of salary and we would NOT have to give up 'top' prospects which Harris would like. Regardless, if Arenado is moved, I think he personally would like it done well before ST as would StL. simply, it is time for both sides to move on - regardless of what team he is dealt to.

Asked (by Chasfh): "What makes you believe Bregman would seriously consider coming here?" All IMHO. I do think Bregman did really think about coming to Detroit last year. He said as much. I also think his wife needs to be on board with this destination. Not a 'Yes, lets go there!' but at least a 'If that is what you really want to do, I am behind you.' Bregman has the A.J. connection also. More so, from the Tigers standpoint, they will have to overpay any bigger FA it would seem to come here. With Bregman, IMHO, he does check off many areas. For instance, he has plenty of post season and championship pedigree. A RHB, middle of order hitter and hi-contact rate. Maybe most importantly, he is also a labeled a good teammate and a leader on and off the field. He can be a mentor for young players with his true baseball work ethic. All of the aforementioned were thought to be just that before last season. From all told he was exactly that in Boston. If Alex's goal is more HOF oriented, he may be best in Boston or Philly. However, I am somewhat surprised Boston had not already extended him. Why? I am not sure they wish to go to the extent of the contract wise he (and Boras) desire. Why did Boston not go 6 years last off season? If they would have given the same proposal the Tigers gave - we probably would not even be talking again about this. One thing though, they did move the Dever's contract. I can see other teams looking at him as well ex again Philly, the NYM, etc. I think maybe a 5-6 year 160 million deal might work (with an opt-out after the first year). This way Alex and Boras get the 6-7 total year deal for 200 mil that was rumored to be sought last year (if you include last years earnings). Bregman has already thought deeply about Detroit. They are contenders right now. IF the Tigers still feel he is 'the guy' they want and they know they are going to have to overpay 'one' guy at some point in the foreseeable future regardless, then they might go after him again. However, unlike last year they cannot wait on him. So, if they like Bichette and/or Kim (again some of this depends on Gleyber) or whoever else - then they go after that player as well. I think A.J and Harris may have really thought Bregman was coiming here last year. Just listen to the Harris interview when he was addressing that situation last ST. Even Alex thought they (his family) were coming here during a very early season interview. Again, what the Tigers perhaps should not do this year is just 'wait' too long for his decision. This is where the potential Torres deal may help and IF they like Bichette (and/or Kim), go for them simultaneously. They will have to over pay Bichette even more so of course - but he could be a guy that really fits long term and he can play multi positions (as can Kim for short term). It seems on the surface that Toronto (and of course Vlad) do really want Bo back - the question is how much payroll will they allocate and they still need to spend elsewhere with a heavy payroll to begin with. The Tigers have very little long term commitments. Toronto does. McGonigle will play regardless (and perhaps Rainer as well a bit later). Bregman (or Bichette), again IMHO, would be a good mentor for this core and the next. Kim would be a 'guy' that should help at this time (if healthy). My percent take on certain players signing here IF the Tigers go after them? * Bregman 40% * Kim 30% * Bichette 20% * Tucker 5% All would have to be over payed of course. I just feel Bregman is the most realistic of the FAs that could make an impact that really would consider it (again). There are other FAs, I am just not sure how much they could help 'this' team ex Osuna (a DH only), Hader (have Javy and Vierling coming back), Suarez (because of high Ks... yet maybe a one year deal), Hays (see Bader), etc. Would one of Japan's players consider Detroit as a U.S. destiny? A trade for a young potential big league player is an idea. We have are not seen this avenue from Harris (yes he acquired Malloy but he is a very incomplete player even still). With that said Harris would have to move some prospects at some point you would think. After all how many young INFs can you have? I am not sure this is a 'plus' area of our CEO and GMs abilities. The knack to make a deal - again we have not really seen it. I suppose another GM could help orchestrate a deal if they really like what the Tigers have. With a bigger FA scenario Ilitch might need to get involved. To push a bit for a 'legit' shot (with the overpay). The Tigers are not that far away NOW, especially with Skubal for one more year. Do they wish to push a bit this off season or talk about the 'next core' once again (see Harris' remarks 3 years ago)? Heck, maybe competing is good enough and let the chips fall where they may. We know the bigger teams (LAD, NYY, Philly, etc.) are still at the forefront. Yet anything can happen (see NYM 2025) and with a good amount of health and some luck (see Milwaukee 2025) things have happened. Throw in the potential for a lock-out after 2026 and it bodes for an interesting off season that is just starting.

Agreed. If healthy he would help. He can field, decent has some speed and a projected 2.4 WAR would help.

This is where I am it. I do think it is time for Harris to 'make some moves' and add MLB talent. Not all 'rebound' projects for arms either. IMHO, I think Bregman still would consider coming here, but I would not wait for him. I like Kim, Bichette, Hader and maybe a couple trade possibilities. I am not sure about a SP. That has never been Harris way, to offer longer term deals for SP and I really do NOT blame him there. Again, IMHO, it is time to get at least one more bat (even if Torres re-ups). Last off season they still went after Bregman after Torres. They have to think McGonigle will be on the team at some point (if not to start), but I think he and Javy can handle 2B, SS or 3B if they add another INF. They also have Keith who can play some 1B, 2B and 3B (also DH). They have ZMac as well. Torres signing or not, will have a domino effect. Regardless, they are in position to compete. FWIW, I also would like to see Harris maybe trade a prospect INF or two for a position of need prospect maybe (SP & INF). To add talent from outside is never easy, there is also risk but it is time for he and Greenberg to 'do so'. IMHO, I feel Ilitch would be behind them.

Also a Thanks!

Exactly, I do not think 'cheap' is any party of the equation here as well. Hence the lengthy response previously.

I do agree on the first account. I agree Chis Ilitch is not cheap per say. I just think he does not personally get too involved like his father did. Actually, I wish he would say 'lets get so & so' and give SHarris a push if he does not already. Regardless of what happens in tomorrow's game against Seattle, there is a 'core' already there that is 27 and under years of age ex Greene, Tork, Keith, Dingler, Meadows, Olsen, Jobe, Melton, etc. and a few a bit older Mize, Skubal, Carp, etc. No need to 'rebuild' here. Simply add a few quality MLB types that are productive 'now'. Maybe even keep or make offers (QO) to Torres, Flaherty (who sought Detroit themselves after they did not receive the long term deals they initially wanted) and add 2 players ex Bregman or Bichette, and another. Then with that add the next young farm group slowly over a couple years ex Clark, McGonigle, Brecino, Rainey, etc. SHarris needs to step up. To stop focusing on aging retread projects (Meada, Boyd, Cobb, Morton) and/or AAAA type middle INFs (Kennedy, Sogard, Maton, Rizzo, etc.) who are fine only AFTER/in conjunction with actual quality type player additions. He should stop talking about a 'core' (we have that after his initial public renderings about such a couple years ago) and stop using the 'kick the can' down the road mentality for the next farm group. Harris needs to add quality for Now and the Future. IMHO, he has not shown this GM bility. The knack to negotiate a trade for that type of player or a FA signing. He did not do it last off season after a playoff run nor this past trade deadline (exception Finnegan, 1 in 5 players he acquired and I was mildly surprised he did make attempts with other organizations). Harris had a team with the best record in baseball, a very good manager and a real chance to win. No excuses. With all said, I will say again, Harris has done well with many other aspects: player development, facility upgrades, additions to MiLB staffing, scouting, overseas facilities, nutrition and physiology/recovery awareness, etc. Maybe he should be more 'the head of player development' or bring in a competent GM to work deals. Who is Jeff Greenberg? does he work for Jimmy John's field? ; ) Go Tigs!

The team is getting more spin and maybe some of that is that they have been playing Cleveland so often lately? I do not buy a whole team slumping at one time - for nearly two months with the exception of just a few games. That is beyond a weird 'baseball thing'. There is some reason(S) for it. They are swinging at far more pitches lately out of the zone it seems and that comes with getting more breaking pitches. The more you chase them - the more you will get them. Part of that is pressing, part is pitch selection and thinking fastballs. I am sure there is more. Anyways, they got past Cleveland, regardless of First place or not, bye-week or not - they are right were they could of been with a 'best case scenario' at end of year. In the Division series (exception home field for a game). Seattle will be a tall task regardless for for Detroit (or Cleveland if they had gotten to play them).

I think Vogt may still use them. However, even if they are on fumes can we even hit them (or anybody) with runners on? Never in all my years have I seen such horrible hitting with men on. No change in approach even if they are somewhat capable (esp Tork lately, nothing oppo). They lack on field leadership. Harris (another question of his ability again here) did the team a disservice at the deadline. I said at the time I was pleasantly surprised that he even managed to get deals done (it is a start for him). He has shown NO ability to acquire MLB talent unless the player/agent approaches him (ala FA Torres). If he has to actually 'negotiate' it - seems not much of a chance (see Bregman). I still think Greenberg has a his place at Jimmy John's Field. Yes, Harris has done many good things: facilities, nutrition and physiology upgrade on staff, minor league development, etc. However, if he cannot bring in talented proven players (I do not mean Ps who are trying to rebound) by trades and FAs then this team will be in trouble until the next regime takes over. The Tigers have a chance still to move forward still this year. They have to hit. Tom Verducci mentioned last week paraphrasing 'The book is out on Detroit. Do not throw too many FBs and use a lot of spin.' The Skubal window IS real. Without him, imho, they are not even a .500 team. If Harris thinks a couple/few prospects with some contact skills are going to change this team into a perennial contender - then he will learn soon and fans will again be waiting on the next GM/CEO. The old adage, develop a core and add to it? Well, one was/is there. Harris did not do enough in the off season nor at the deadline. He has to be able to add talented MLB players. To play 'kick the can' (ex wait til the next core group comes in) - anyone can do that game. Ilitch has to step in - perhaps he is more hands off as I fear it is Yzerman autonomy all over again with Harris.

Lately, teams have been throwing much more breaking stuff at the Tigers it seems. We still have a team of hitters who simply 'do not like to walk' and will chase especially on 3-2 counts and teams know this so we often get 'spin' in those situations. No wonder Harris and the 'Control the zone' approach, especially in drafting, is so prevalent. This team needs to get it together. They also really could use the bye during the first round of the playoffs - that is if they get in. IMHO, they are not equipped with SP to just 'chaos' it there on out it if they have to play the wild card round initially.

No truer words have ever been spoken.

I remember hearing that as well from A.J. Pierzynski and thinking 'He may have something there' also. Yet, as you said, they should hopefully play here out. If you really think about it, a team 'just' has to play above .500 during actual post-season play to keep moving on - much easier said than done.

Yes, an objective observation is soooo often lost. All "Good" teams have flaws. They lose games. They could have done this and should have done that, lol, during the course. Just follow ANY team for 2-3 months. Maybe better yet, count to 67 slowly and if you think that is a lot of games to lose in a year - well that team is also winning 95 and that is "considered" quite good 😉

Hmm, I am sure they are at least giving it 'a thought', along with a couple others in a similar situation. Maybe more so as a RP.

Yes, they play every game one at a time and have to forget yesterday (plus or minus, especially P's). Hinch has always said something to the effect 'Today is the biggest game'.

True observation. IMHO, rosters should be 27-28 anyways (42 total man roster). For Sept. 1 maybe up to 30. The 40 man Sept. roster was way too many (very rarely did teams actually get to 30 though). With said baseball takes its time making any changes.

He clearly has some ability. The Tigers would not have brought him up last year and back and forth this year if they felt he does not - and he did contribute to the team during the stretch plus. This year, like many players during their sophomore season, the league adjusted and he has to back. Not saying he will be a 'star' but he does have ability, was a first round pick and he can have his moments. The team has won games with him at short and right now Trey playing short and Javy in CF might be their best D. As Chasfh mentioned earlier Rainer is most likely the SS of the future, but for now having a decent+ SS, LH bat, good speed and someone who fits with the team is not all bad.

Yes, there are many more names to add to this. With said this happens with EVERY organization. More so now than ever before. Unfortunately, it may continue for awhile. Clubs have to learn more about recovery science. IMHO, playing 162 games a year is too much. If extra innings were still going with no ghost runner at second to start - the number of pitching injuries would be greater still. Again, IMHO, to start with - Need maybe 28 man rosters (45 overall). Definitely less overall games. 5-6 day rest periods between starts. Look at the weight of the ball as compared to previous decades and more about recovery from workloads. I am sure there is more than that as well.

GORT seconds that!

You are Welcome sir!