alex

Also a Thanks!

Exactly, I do not think 'cheap' is any party of the equation here as well. Hence the lengthy response previously.

I do agree on the first account. I agree Chis Ilitch is not cheap per say. I just think he does not personally get too involved like his father did. Actually, I wish he would say 'lets get so & so' and give SHarris a push if he does not already. Regardless of what happens in tomorrow's game against Seattle, there is a 'core' already there that is 27 and under years of age ex Greene, Tork, Keith, Dingler, Meadows, Olsen, Jobe, Melton, etc. and a few a bit older Mize, Skubal, Carp, etc. No need to 'rebuild' here. Simply add a few quality MLB types that are productive 'now'. Maybe even keep or make offers (QO) to Torres, Flaherty (who sought Detroit themselves after they did not receive the long term deals they initially wanted) and add 2 players ex Bregman or Bichette, and another. Then with that add the next young farm group slowly over a couple years ex Clark, McGonigle, Brecino, Rainey, etc. SHarris needs to step up. To stop focusing on aging retread projects (Meada, Boyd, Cobb, Morton) and/or AAAA type middle INFs (Kennedy, Sogard, Maton, Rizzo, etc.) who are fine only AFTER/in conjunction with actual quality type player additions. He should stop talking about a 'core' (we have that after his initial public renderings about such a couple years ago) and stop using the 'kick the can' down the road mentality for the next farm group. Harris needs to add quality for Now and the Future. IMHO, he has not shown this GM bility. The knack to negotiate a trade for that type of player or a FA signing. He did not do it last off season after a playoff run nor this past trade deadline (exception Finnegan, 1 in 5 players he acquired and I was mildly surprised he did make attempts with other organizations). Harris had a team with the best record in baseball, a very good manager and a real chance to win. No excuses. With all said, I will say again, Harris has done well with many other aspects: player development, facility upgrades, additions to MiLB staffing, scouting, overseas facilities, nutrition and physiology/recovery awareness, etc. Maybe he should be more 'the head of player development' or bring in a competent GM to work deals. Who is Jeff Greenberg? does he work for Jimmy John's field? ; ) Go Tigs!

The team is getting more spin and maybe some of that is that they have been playing Cleveland so often lately? I do not buy a whole team slumping at one time - for nearly two months with the exception of just a few games. That is beyond a weird 'baseball thing'. There is some reason(S) for it. They are swinging at far more pitches lately out of the zone it seems and that comes with getting more breaking pitches. The more you chase them - the more you will get them. Part of that is pressing, part is pitch selection and thinking fastballs. I am sure there is more. Anyways, they got past Cleveland, regardless of First place or not, bye-week or not - they are right were they could of been with a 'best case scenario' at end of year. In the Division series (exception home field for a game). Seattle will be a tall task regardless for for Detroit (or Cleveland if they had gotten to play them).

I think Vogt may still use them. However, even if they are on fumes can we even hit them (or anybody) with runners on? Never in all my years have I seen such horrible hitting with men on. No change in approach even if they are somewhat capable (esp Tork lately, nothing oppo). They lack on field leadership. Harris (another question of his ability again here) did the team a disservice at the deadline. I said at the time I was pleasantly surprised that he even managed to get deals done (it is a start for him). He has shown NO ability to acquire MLB talent unless the player/agent approaches him (ala FA Torres). If he has to actually 'negotiate' it - seems not much of a chance (see Bregman). I still think Greenberg has a his place at Jimmy John's Field. Yes, Harris has done many good things: facilities, nutrition and physiology upgrade on staff, minor league development, etc. However, if he cannot bring in talented proven players (I do not mean Ps who are trying to rebound) by trades and FAs then this team will be in trouble until the next regime takes over. The Tigers have a chance still to move forward still this year. They have to hit. Tom Verducci mentioned last week paraphrasing 'The book is out on Detroit. Do not throw too many FBs and use a lot of spin.' The Skubal window IS real. Without him, imho, they are not even a .500 team. If Harris thinks a couple/few prospects with some contact skills are going to change this team into a perennial contender - then he will learn soon and fans will again be waiting on the next GM/CEO. The old adage, develop a core and add to it? Well, one was/is there. Harris did not do enough in the off season nor at the deadline. He has to be able to add talented MLB players. To play 'kick the can' (ex wait til the next core group comes in) - anyone can do that game. Ilitch has to step in - perhaps he is more hands off as I fear it is Yzerman autonomy all over again with Harris.

Lately, teams have been throwing much more breaking stuff at the Tigers it seems. We still have a team of hitters who simply 'do not like to walk' and will chase especially on 3-2 counts and teams know this so we often get 'spin' in those situations. No wonder Harris and the 'Control the zone' approach, especially in drafting, is so prevalent. This team needs to get it together. They also really could use the bye during the first round of the playoffs - that is if they get in. IMHO, they are not equipped with SP to just 'chaos' it there on out it if they have to play the wild card round initially.

No truer words have ever been spoken.

I remember hearing that as well from A.J. Pierzynski and thinking 'He may have something there' also. Yet, as you said, they should hopefully play here out. If you really think about it, a team 'just' has to play above .500 during actual post-season play to keep moving on - much easier said than done.

Yes, an objective observation is soooo often lost. All "Good" teams have flaws. They lose games. They could have done this and should have done that, lol, during the course. Just follow ANY team for 2-3 months. Maybe better yet, count to 67 slowly and if you think that is a lot of games to lose in a year - well that team is also winning 95 and that is "considered" quite good 😉

Hmm, I am sure they are at least giving it 'a thought', along with a couple others in a similar situation. Maybe more so as a RP.

Yes, they play every game one at a time and have to forget yesterday (plus or minus, especially P's). Hinch has always said something to the effect 'Today is the biggest game'.

True observation. IMHO, rosters should be 27-28 anyways (42 total man roster). For Sept. 1 maybe up to 30. The 40 man Sept. roster was way too many (very rarely did teams actually get to 30 though). With said baseball takes its time making any changes.

He clearly has some ability. The Tigers would not have brought him up last year and back and forth this year if they felt he does not - and he did contribute to the team during the stretch plus. This year, like many players during their sophomore season, the league adjusted and he has to back. Not saying he will be a 'star' but he does have ability, was a first round pick and he can have his moments. The team has won games with him at short and right now Trey playing short and Javy in CF might be their best D. As Chasfh mentioned earlier Rainer is most likely the SS of the future, but for now having a decent+ SS, LH bat, good speed and someone who fits with the team is not all bad.

Yes, there are many more names to add to this. With said this happens with EVERY organization. More so now than ever before. Unfortunately, it may continue for awhile. Clubs have to learn more about recovery science. IMHO, playing 162 games a year is too much. If extra innings were still going with no ghost runner at second to start - the number of pitching injuries would be greater still. Again, IMHO, to start with - Need maybe 28 man rosters (45 overall). Definitely less overall games. 5-6 day rest periods between starts. Look at the weight of the ball as compared to previous decades and more about recovery from workloads. I am sure there is more than that as well.

GORT seconds that!

You are Welcome sir!

I am not sure there is a way to quantify that - at least yet. A star player lose, even at 5-6 WAR, is huge. There is also team psychology involved as well. Look at Garrett Cole with NYY. IF he had been around I would say the NYY might have 5-6 more W's at this time. When they lost Judge recently they fell again. When Cleveland lost JRamirez, and if were again - it is devastating. If Detroit lost Skubal, most here would say it is over - and that would hold merit and only be for 50 games or so and with a 6 game lead, let alone an entire season. You are correct in WAR, for sure - but IMHO, there is more to it than just that. I am not sure if it is measurable.

IMHO, they also need a better approach. To many were swinging out of the 'zone' big time. 'Control the zone' has gone away more so lately. With said we have to stop giving up so many runs or nothing is going to help. It puts a lot of pressure on the offense.

All IMHO. We learned a bit more about SHarris at this 2025 Trade Deadline. First, I still think he has done a lot for the organization in terms of: getting facility upgrades, talent evaluators aboard, nutrition with exercise science and recovery data sought, scouting & development and several other things. The one thing I had questioned for a while now is his ability to acquire MLB talent. Yes, he can get players who 'may' hit that are younger still ex McKinstry, Vierling and Holton. With said he has had numerous other 'shots' with the likes of Maton, Rizzo, Solak, Camargo, Nevin, etc., etc. Not to mention all the arms back and forth. All GMS do this. I/we do not know just how much he tried to get another 'impact' BP piece here. Was it just Briceno (also Clark, McGonigle, Rainer or CRodriguez) or bust to get one? I do not believe that. I somehow think he may have been able to do a 3 (or even 4) for 1 deal for a Helsley or a similar arm. Or for Suarez. I would think a combo of anyone from say our 7th to 25th rated players, that type of thing. Also, he still had JJung, JHM and others to work with. I would tend to think another deal to add quality to go with the quantity he obtained could have been done. Again a 3-4 player for 1 deal. Other teams did accomplish this. The Yankees got Dovel for 4 minor league players and NOT a Top prospect. Seattle did it for Saurez. The Mets for Helsley. I think even GSoto may have been able to help (ex against a heavy LH hitting like Philly - the Mets thought so). Where the Tigers 'may' have been short was young actual prospect arms to get this type of deal done. With said, IF Harris opted not to trade quantity from say the top 10-25 ranked prospects (which is subjective), using multiples to get a better player to add on - then I am mildly disappointed. If you think about it, he used the same quantity over quality approach to get players. If Harris did not do this because he felt even that is too much then I really second guess here. Why? because your are keeping your top farm guys AND adding impact at the expense of potentially lesser players. You are trying to win now and in the future. I still question if Harris has the art to negotiate a bit back and forth when dealing. The knack to get a deal done. I do like that he made deals with several different teams. That he is gaining more experience here. I question just how much GM JGreenberg impacts things with deal making. I also think Harris has a bit of Yzerman in him and a little 'thinking the smartest guy in the room' mentality going on. They both seem very secure with their respective positions. IMHO, a bit more could have and should have been done. I am pleasantly surprised he did get several deals done. You never really know when you are in a true position to win. The Tigers have that now. There is some luck involved with this and there will be injuries to all teams as we move forward. Some injuries may be devastating. Go Tigs!

They are both quite talented and dedicated IMHO. I enjoy them. Johnny knows many on the team it seems. He will do the extra work to help fans learn more ex his previous podcasts whether it is Jack's mom or Englert's meditation and training, Chaffin & Alexander on the farm, Jake at a restaurant, etc. Their hearts are into and it shows for both of them. We ALL have quirks, mannerisms and personalities or moments where we make a mistake or two while working. There is no perfect.

Yes, maybe Harris does not want to part with his top prospects. Yet, we still have several (5-10 types, along with JHM, Jung, etc.) that could still bring someone back - if we can pull it off. I am thinking one more move. Maybe one of Colorado's late inning RPs or even a surprise starter/position player. Depends on what Harris IS willing to move. If not, we are a bit better, but not a whole lot. All IMHO.

My initial thoughts - Well, it can help. Maybe replace CLee for now. Still really think one more 'high leverage' guy could really help. If anything it may take a 'desperation' look away from Detroit and give Harris an a little help in that respect to make another deal.

Hmm, if he is willing to let that go - there may be more that he could actually acquire. I am just not sure Harris has the ability to make deals for proven MLB talent. We will see before long and I am willing to give the benefit of the doubt. They are there now, so he should take a chance - and he does not have to mortgage the future.

Hmm, I agree with the chips you mentioned. A GM with the ability to 'make a deal' could do this. I think Harris is good in many areas - but making deals to acquire good MLB players I question.

Agreed!