buddha

America! **** yeah!

i wouldnt trade that much for debrincat. i dont think there in a place where he moves the needle that much to give up all that. i know they gave up a first and a second for him, but i would argue he's older, coming off a worse season, and is one year removed from being a ufa. i think his value has decreased. if youre the wings, what does signing him get you if you give up half the farm for him? youre now the ottawa senators from this last season. that's not much better than you were this season and youve given up half the farm to get there. i'd start at #17 and #41. the most i would do is #17 and the boston pick. if ottawa doesnt want just picks, i might do cossa and #17. i realize this probably wont get it done, but i would hate to see the wings give up their future just to finish in 6th rather than 7th. unfortunately, i think this slog continues for at least one more year. were going to have to be a 4 line team with no stars. carolina west....or seattle east...

zion is amazingly talented but obviously has some maturity issues to work out. the bigger issue is health. if he's always going to be fat and out of shape, he'll never reach his potential. there are few guys who dont take care of themselves that pan out. there arent many charles barkleys in the world.

dubois puts in a trade request....again. the only club that should trade for him is montreal. speaking of which, if they dont want dubois, where does he go? seems like he's painted himself into a corner. also, what would you trade for debrincat?

not a surprise.

this jokic guy might be pretty good.

will the league reject it again like they did the last time he went to the lakers?

all the guys who have been on that list and then fallen off the list tella me that those lists mean very little.

he wasnt. he was injured. over his career he has been more productive than jared goff. age 21: lamar was a rookie going 9-1 as a starter. goff was in college. age 22: lamar had the 4th greatest season in nfl history. goff was a terrible rookie. age 23: lamar had a 67.4 qbr. goff had his second best season as a ram with 55 qbr. in fairness, goff had a slightly higher qb rating. age 24: lamar was injured and had his worst season. 50.7 qbr. 87 rating. goff had his best season with a 63 qbr and a 100 rating. age 25: lamar is injured again. has a 59 qbr and an 89 rating. still better than goff's 50 qbr and 86 rating. for their age levels, jackson has been better every single season except one. ergo, i think he's been more productive. your mileage almost certainly varies.

what point was that? that he got less productive after the fourth greatest season by qbr in nfl history? i agree. i dont disagree with a lot of what randy or you or anyone else criticizing lamar have said. he has been injured. he has been less productive. his history is worrisome. but he's still been more productive than jared goff. which isnt a sleight to goff! goff has had some really good seasons, including last season. but he's just not as good as jackson because he doesnt have the abilities jackson does. again, no sleight to goff. you dont have to be a mobile qb to win in this league. it just helps, that's all.

being able to do both.

im not lying. you flip flop all the time. ask hendon hooker.

correct.

if the lions traded for lamar jackson you'd reverse every position you took in this thread, just like you did when they traded matt stafford.

some of what you would call lamar's less productive seasons are on par with goff's best seasons. lamar qbr: 42.6 rookie year 83 (one of the greatest seasons in nfl history) 67 50 59 goff: 18, 55, 63, 50, 50, 39, 61 again, the issue with lamar is health, not talent. when healthy, he is one of the best qbs in the nfl.

huge get for michigan bball today. hopefully the admissions department doesnt ruin it.

lamar jackson had one of the greatest seasons in nfl history. jared goff has never been close to as good as peak lamar jackson. the question for lamar is health.

whoops!

i'd put lamar jackson and deshaun watson in tier 2. we'll see if watson can recover his form after missing so much time, but before his suspension he waa dynamic. lamar too before his injuries.

i dont really like or agree with pff stats on most things. i had a subscription for a year and always found their ratings puzzling. admitedly, i dont know football, but ive watched it enough to know good from bad in general. and pff's interpretations were....not what i was seeing. every time i listen to a pff podcast - most of which i like - they have the lions oline as one of the top 3 or 4 units in the entire league. they love amon ra, and they like the direction theyre going. they also think goff is an average qb. probably because he is an average qb. there is no shame in that and you can win with that. but if there is a system that has goff as the #2 qb behind patrick mahomes, that system is flawed.

they need someone to break through, that's for sure.

stafford has better arm strength than goff. he has top 1% arm strength. like red said, goff had a good year last year and we all like him, but he has some weaknesses like a lack of mobility that likely limit his ceiling. the lions are aware of this which is probably why they drafted a potentially more mobile qb in hooker. we'll see if that works out. if not they have goff for two more season under contract and can alwaya franchise him for a third if they like. there isnt any need to do an extension now (unless they want some cap relief this year or next).

if stafford were still a lion and goff were still a ram, this board would consider goff a middle of the pack at best qb and stafford as a top 5-10 qb.

the only reports from mini camp that mean anything are the injury reports. everything else is fluff.

jared goff is so good, he could have taught jeremy bonderman a changeup.