Betrayer
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Everything posted by Betrayer
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Agree with the top half of your take. I like Mathurin. If you're taking the safe player, I'd rather have him than Keegan Murray because he has a higher ceiling. Of course, if drafting Murray means we're trading Grant to get the #7 pick, then by all means give me both of those players 😄 I want as many chances at finding that 1 in 10 All-Star or Superstar in this draft as possible, which brings me to the next point... I disagree with the second half of your take. We were near .500 after the All Star break when Cade got going. This team is highly unlikely to get another top 5 pick lotto pick while Cade is here. All-Star free agents don't come to Detroit either. That means the only way you're getting another star next to Cade is by trading away other assets. A team with only one star is a sure fire way to play your way into NBA mediocrity - not good enough to compete for a championship but not bad enough to get a good lottery pick. Good teams that aren't hot NBA destinations get there by maximizing their draft picks and finding stars with house money (the draft). Just look at the teams in the finals - Tatum and Brown were both Celtics lotto draft picks that turned into stars. Curry and Klay were both GS lotto draft picks that turned in Stars. I think this is a huge pick and probably the defining off-season for Weaver's rebuild. It's the first time he's had to make any real, meaningful decisions. Playing it safe to get a role player or a simple starter really doesn't do anything for you because you can sign those guys for affordable contracts in the NBA. This is one of your few remaining chances to hit on a draft pick that could make you a contender in a few years. So, if you think Mathurin is that guy, then you take him 100%. If not though, and you're just picking him because he's a safe role player, then that's a mistake in my eyes.
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Maybe a trade for Luke Kennard?
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Should be an interesting series. GS probably the favorite, but I'll be rooting for the Celtics. I think a lot will be determine by how it's officiated. If the Celtics are allowed to play physical then they have a chance with their defense, but if the refs are blowing the whistle a lot then it favors Golden State's movement offense. If those guys can just run around without getting touched on the perimeter, they're going to be tough to stop.
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Jeff Van Gundy didn't like it either. I was cool with it...since I was rooting for the Celtics.
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I don't know, but he's on the cover of Slam magazine... https://www.slamonline.com/the-magazine/cade-cunningham-slam-238/
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Dallas eliminated. I was rooting for them, but man their offense is tough to watch. So Harden-like. Everyone stands around watching Luka, Brunson, or Spencer dribble the air out of the ball and go one-on-one. Maybe sometimes they’ll kick it out after a drive rather than taking a step back three, but that’s about all the ball or people movement you get. Meanwhile GS has constant people movement, ball movement, screening (on and off the ball), and cutting. Too bad Casey’s offense is more like Dallas than GS.
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Grant played much better with Cade and Bey after he came back from the thumb injury and Weaver had a talk with him about playing a more "efficient" brand of basketball. They talked about this in the post-season interview with Casey and Weaver. The team also was pretty close to .500 during that stretch. So, I think Grant is fine as far as his ability to play with others. My problem with Grant is I don't want the Pistons to commit to a 20+ Million a year extension for a complimentary player at this stage of the rebuild. Get your 2 or 3 stars first, then fill out the rest. So, for that reason I hope we trade him and I think we will, even if it's not for the #7 pick. However, I do worry about the fact that if we trade Grant and draft Murray we will have lost our only athletic starter. Can you imagine a starting lineup of Cade, CoJo, Bey, Murray, and Stewart? That's the least athletic lineup in the league. For that reason I hope we draft a more athletic player rather than Murray or at least get the #7 pick to get another athlete. Again, I don't dislike Murray, but what he brings is too similar to what Bey brings and this team is in desperate need of athleticism in the starting lineup.
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And "journalists" because you have to have something to talk about. All it takes is one guy to write an article saying, "Pistons have cap space, could they be interested in Ayton?", and the next day every podcast and "writer" is saying that Detroit has been "linked" to Ayton.
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Find a way to prey on Portland's desperation and get that #7 to keep Dame happy. Going to take a bit more than Grant though. How much depends upon how much they want to keep Dame happy versus keeping the #7 in a weak draft. Also depends on what other teams offer. Maybe taking on Bledsoe's contract and adding in a 2nd rounder does the trick. Maybe sending one of Olynyk, Hami, or Frank helps the cause as well. You never know what GMs are thinking, and we've all seen interesting deals go down. Even with the pick in hand, in order to get 2 of those guys, Murray has to be the pick at #5 because the other three are guards so you probably don't want two of those. Then just grab the guard that's still available at 7 - Mathurin or Sharpe depending upon how much Indy wants to gamble on floor vs ceiling. Much as I like Ivey, I'd be elated to come out of the draft with Murray and one of Mathurin or Sharpe. It's the best of both worlds. Also saves us from extending Grant (huge win in my eyes) and probably keeps us out of the Ayton sign/trade for a max (even better). If we wind up getting Mathurin that might keep us away from Brunson as well (yay!), but if it's Sharpe they may want a vet like Brunson on the roster while Sharpe comes along for a couple years.
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Good watch. Covers strengths and weaknesses on both sides of the ball, on ball, off ball, etc. There's zero chance I'd pass on Ivey is he's there at 5. Highest ceiling in the lottery (Sharpe is just guesswork right now). Give me that speed, athleticism, on ball defense, decent/improving three ball (36%), work ethic, and 99th percentile in player gravity please. We can work on the rest. I see him and Cade and as Tatum/Brown type of pairing. Ice and fire.
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No thanks. I don't want to max a drop coverage Center and I certainly don't want to add insult to injury by giving away assets in a sign and trade in order to have the privilege of maxing a Center. Give me someone like Mitchell Robinson instead (if we don't wind up getting the #7 pick and Duren). Most of the production at 1/3rd of the cost and we wouldn't have to give up assets on top of the cost.
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The back and forth in that series has been pretty crazy.
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Actually, Longgone accurately described exactly what I was saying. And I wasn't explaining "why Sharpe". It was why you don't take a safe, low ceiling pick in what could be the last year you get a high lottery pick. Picks like that get you Kennard instead of Mitchell. It was also why you don't take another low level athlete when you have a team full of them. It's not about Sharpe in particular, in fact most people on here know that I prefer Ivey, it was why you take players like Ivey, Sharpe, or Mathurin over Murray.
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Having watched all the games, I'm not sure I agree with all that, but if that's your verdict then it sounds like you've described Dyson Daniels as well. Not sure anyone wants a turd with a top 10 pick.
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Probably not the thread for a Killian discussion, but a Killian that shoots 40% on catch-and-shoot threes combined with his ability to be a secondary playmaker and his elite defensive potential would be a really nice role player next to Cade. A better shooting version of Marcus Smart. A Hami that could shoot 40% threes would be a nightmare on offense. You'd have to close out and he has the athleticism to just blow by anyone if they do that. Of course, it won't fix his off-ball defensive IQ, but I can live with that if you give me the rest of the package in addition to his disruptive on-ball defense. Point being, make a 25% three point shooter into a 40% three point shooter and all of a sudden almost anyone can become a legitimate role player. Kinda a silly argument for Daniels moving up so high in the draft. They said the same thing about Stanley Johnson. But maybe the Kings would buy it. Who knows what they'll do.
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I have no idea how Smart came back to play in that game. His ankle was basically touching the floor and then Lowry landed on it in that position. They must have some good locker room meds. Bet he's feeling it today.
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"If his shooting comes around, Daniels profiles as a terrific starting guard who could turn into one of the best role players in the NBA." You can say this about way too many prospects. Daniels is shooting 25% from three. If Killian could shoot the three he'd be a great role player as well. Or Hami.
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In a vacuum, I get the Keegan Murray love from some folks. He projects as a high floor player and Weaver gets a lot more heat for missing on a Sharpe pick if he busts then he does for drafting an average quality starter. He'll also contribute to winning sooner, and who knows what pressure Gores is applying from behind the scenes. So, it's safe in a lot of ways. Problem is you have to look at the rest of this team. You already have a very similar style low athleticism player in Bey. You have a cerebral, average athlete at guard (Cade). You have a switchable but undersized and less athletic big in Stewart. Your other hopeful guard (because maybe drafting Keegan is an ego thing about not giving up Killian) is also not very athletic. You're rumored to be interested in a 6'1" non-athletic guard in Brunson. And if you're grabbing Murray, then Grant is out the door so there goes your only athlete in the starting lineup. In isolation, every one of these players is fine in a lineup. But put them all together and you have the least athletic lineup in the entire NBA. That's a problem. It was a problem last year and this will make it even worse. I'm completely on board with the logic that this is likely to be the Pistons last shot at a high pick for a while because of Cade. You HAVE to swing for the fences to get another star next to him or risk being mediocre forever (until Cade leaves) because you aren't getting that star in free agency in Detroit and you don't want to mortgage all your other assets to trade for a superstar. Even if you don't take Sharpe/Ivey, you take Mathurin instead of Murray because he's probably the best of both worlds. High floor (maybe not quite as high as Keegan's) and high ceiling (though not as high as Sharpe/Ivey). So, he's a good in-between pick if Weaver is feeling heat to get a sure thing but still wants the chance at a higher ceiling player.
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I have no idea what they're going to do when Chuck decides to leave. He's the heart of that show.
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I think 5 is too much of a reach for Duren when there are better prospects on the board, but if we get the Portland pick (or maybe he falls to the Washington pick and they still want Grant), then he'd be a solid option. From what the beat writers are saying, Duren is someone that the Piston's org really likes as well. Most of all I want one of the guards (Ivey, Sharpe, or Mathurin) to put next to Cade at #5. Last year we started CoJo at that spot, so that's clearly our biggest need. In this draft it's also our best chance at landing a guy with All-Star potential. After that, I'd love to see them get a second pick so we can maximize Grant as an asset and don't have to pay him an extension (or wind up using him in a sign and trade for the privilege of maxing out Ayton - please no).
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For what it's worth both beat writers (Omari and JEIII) came out on their podcasts today talking about how high the organization is on Murray and that they think there's a good chance he's the pick. So, we better spend some time getting used to that idea. As I said previously, I hope SAC goes for the fit and high floor to take him right before us rather than grabbing one of the guards seeing as how they just traded away a really good guard and are looking to win now. I don't hate Murray - his shooting will translate and he'll probably be a solid role player in the NBA for a long time - but I want more upside, athleticism, and less overlap with Bey. I suppose I could come to terms with getting Murray if it means that we move Grant (you kind of have to at that point) to Portland for their pick so we can also grab Mathurin.
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After picking Keegan Murray. ...where does the pain end?
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Hopefully the idea of increased ticket sales from Sharpe hype will be more enticing to Gores than pressuring Weaver/Casey to start winning sooner by drafting the more immediate player (Murray) who has a much lower ceiling. Who does Vecenie have Indy taking at #6? Perhaps the Pistons can have their cake and eat it too by trading back into the #7 pick to grab him then.
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I'm just wondering what we'll give away this season to move on from Kelly Olynyk.
