mtutiger

The other question I would have is the cases where there are incest, rape, or life of mother is in the balance.... It's nothing personal, but there's a reason it's hard to get a straight answer on these questions. Because these are extremely complicated issues that maybe require a little more nuance than is generally allowed for at the extreme end of the specturm.

I'm asking what *you* believe.

Who do you believe should bear responsibility if/when an abortion is completed in a state that has banned it?

Does it make me a Pharisee to ask who should be held criminally liable for abortions? Should it all be on the doctor? The Mom? Who? These are serious questions and it's not entirely clear that there will be uniform answers to them if Roe is overturned.

Come on...

Really, really concerning. And ramifications beyond the issue of abortion as well.

The fact that there's so little concern about cases of rape and incest, as well as the life of the mother, among this current crop of GOP Politicians is beyond disturbing and makes it hard to really trust them to legislate the issue in an even handed way.

Exactly. A lot of people are acting like this issue would be settled at the state and federal level if Roe is overturned and there's really no evidence that's the case at all.

Assuming the state they live in doesn't attempt to criminalize going to Illinois for the purposes of getting an abortion, of course.

Just my two cents, but comparing abortion to the Holocaust really trivializes what happened during the Holocaust. And if one harbors pro-life views, it's probably a line that's more of a negative than a positive toward promoting those views. I'll leave it at that.

I assume it would be a challenge to a law in a state allowing for abortions... I'm just saying that I'm not sure why anyone would have any trust in this court to act with any sort of logical consistency....

lol

You think this same court is gonna feel this way whenever someone tries to get it banned nationwide?

There are also proposals in some states (Missouri, I believe) that would attempt to criminalize going across state lines to get an abortion. People acting like the net effect of this ruling stops with states simply adopting the laws they see fit are really downplaying what's gonna come next. And that doesn't even get into the question of who, whenever abortions do inevitably happen in jurisdictions where it is made illegal, gets criminally prosecuted.

Or the mainstream right.

I would be curious to know how sabertooth would feel if another case ended up before the Supreme Court that would forbid abortion nationwide.

Agreed. Of course, two wrongs do not make a right either.

Sure sounded like Tigeraholic did.

I guess this is my problem with Buddha's framing.... it just seems like on this issue, there's no penalty at all to just throwing "Hitler" and "Nazi" around if it comes from the right of the issue. Like it's just expected. Decorum and all that, on the other hand, gets enforced on the left extreme of the issue. It's largely why I don't talk about this issue any more. Most people are in the middle, yet the extremes dominate it. Assuming Roe goes, we'll now get to see one end of the spectrum dominate and see how the people respond.

Are you accusing pro choicers of being Nazis?

Exactly. It's kinda weird to see Buddha adopt the language of absolutists to go after Rob when the absolutists on the issue have the same level of disdain for those squishes who are in the middle on the issue.

I mean, the accusation came from the hard right of the issue.

I've been compared to Hitler in a past debate for holding a position similar to yours fwiw

Where do you stand on this issue? I honestly cannot recall, but the above sentiment would probably be lodged by the furthest extreme toward those who are in the middle of the issue