mtutiger

And I've already stated that I believe that he (and his voting record) are well to the left of where the median voter in his state sits right now. The fact that he has supported a number of things Biden has proposed to date reflects that. Maybe, just maybe, he doesn't agree with aspects of how the current bill is? Maybe he doesn't like that its a grab bag of programs that only last for 2 years instead of a few programs set to last for 10? That's actually a legit criticism of the House bill, and he has repeated it over and over and it really hasn't been dealt with... Instead, when he makes his statement today (reiterating this criticism), people act shocked and angered, as if they haven't been paying attention. And talk about Lucy and the football and all that crap. I'm just sort of tired of it... the situation is what it is. He's number 50, figure something out that he'll go with and take the W.

And as I said to Tater, you could write that question as "Joe Biden's BBB Bill" and get a drastically different result. Because negative partisanship is a thing.

I mean, there's a reason that Paula Jean Swearingen got her ass kicked against Capito last cycle.... I believe he understands his state better than we do and that, if anything, he is well to the left of average for West Virginians. It is what it is. Again, I don't love having to rely on his vote. But on the other hand, Russ Feingold, Katie McGinty, Bill Nelson, Sara Gideon.... There have been countless Senate races that could have been won over the past four years that would have made that 50th Senator someone aside from Joe Manchin. But they weren't, this is what we have. And you don't fix it by taking your bat and ball and going home, you do it by electing more people so he's not your 50th vote.

Did they poll Joe Biden's BBB bill? Thats the problem with issue polling... the moment you link the issue with an actual politician (especially one who lost a state by almost 45 points), I'd bet those numbers are big time underwater.

Joe Manchin, the guy who basically gives the D the Senate majority at the moment, represents a state that Trump won by almost 45%. If he were strictly doing shit that voters in his state wanted, he wouldn't even be at the negotiating table.

More passion in those 90 seconds than in three years of Matty P

The facts are what they are, but at the end of the day, none of that is gonna change Manchin's position. And over and over through this negotiation, people have basically pretended that Manchin doesn't exist or that they can just plow forward on all of this stuff without him. I get it, it sucks... I'm certainly not a huge fan of his. But you have to play with the team that you have. And they are playing with 50 Senators and a VP tiebreaker. Which ain't much.. No amount of pretending otherwise will change that. So figure out something that will get the 50+1, and get it done. Same as it ever was.

This additional context in Manchin's statement this morning is where the rubber meets the road. There has been a philosophical divide on doing less for longer or doing more for shorter, and it hasn't been clear throughout this process that this discrepancy has been dealt with.

Concerns about our own domestic situation notwithstanding, the past couple of years haven't exactly been great for far right parties.... blocked out of power in Israel by a grand coalition, divided in France, little gain in Germany, set to lose tonight in Chile. And even Orban is facing a united opposition coming up.

I hope so, but AOC's comments have a real "Freedom Caucus" vibe to them that concerns me

Yes, but even if they come to a bill that wins his approval, is there any guarantee there are sufficient votes in the House? Its a real pickle because I'm not sure there are enough reps that will set aside their righteous anger to vote for a bill that can pass this Senate.

The amount of denial is what gets me... it always gets framed as being this massive majority that they possess in both houses, and it really isn't. Particularly in the Senate, where, between securing the vote of the median Senator (ie. Manchin) and the possibility that someone like Leahy or Feinstein could keel over, there is no margin for error at all.. It's like the progressives just prefer to pretend that reality doesn't exist. Its real echo chamber stuff.

One would think that the best course of action would be to elect additional Senators that would make Manchin's vote less critical, but maybe I'm just old fashioned.

Check off all their boxes (which, as we've discussed, is a lot harder in practice when you take in account the structure of government). Seriously, I don't know the answer. Itd be nice to think there would be some reflection on what staying home acccomplishes when the SCOTUS dismembers Roe, but I doubt it.

Just from my observation, a lot of people in my cohort are very rigid in their politics. Such that they want the accomplishments they want when they want them, and failure to succeed in getting those accomplishments is abject failure. And, frankly, they seem oblivious to political reality in terms of structure of government. What it misses is that, again, we don't elect Kings in this country. A President has a lot of power, but he or she still has to pass legislation to get things done. And right now, you have a small majority in the House and a practically nonexistent majority in the Senate with which to work with, which includes Joe Manchin and Kyrsten Sinema. Taking that into account, and knowing how the opposition is, it's impressive that they have gotten as much done as they have. But instead of using the current predicament as motivation to persuade or to elect different politicians, all we hear about is complaining about how ones vote doesn't matter and that they'll stay home. Republicans? They don't do that shit.... they'll complain about their politicians but will still show up in big numbers. Young D voters? You either check off all my boxes or I'll stay home.

I want to disagree, but I really cannot.

F Rick Perry

It's nothing new, but it's still jarring to see the former President's anti-semitism in full bloom. Could you imagine if a Democrat said it?

Honestly never ceases to amaze how Fox News is the self-appointed ombudsmen of mainstream press coverage when they are embroiled in a multi-billion dollar defamation case.

Figured this by-election result from the UK would be a good reason to restart this one. Thread It would appear that the BoJo honeymoon is officially over

All coming from the same folks who trash Greta Thunberg. Almost like the concern isn't about using young people for political ends but rather what political ends they are being used for 🤔

Predictable.