buddha

come on cade.  you dont leave strus to hedge when ausar has mitchell.

GET DUREN OFF THE FLOOR!

remember when we all said reed should play?  nope.  instead we have to watch duren do nothing, grab no offensive boards, and stand there on defense.

7 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said:

The Democratic Party is where Republicans were circa 2008. The Tea Party was fringe until it wasn't. Democrats have their version of the Tea Party. It's centered on whites. An elected congresswoman said from the river to the sea. The mayor of New York said to globalize the intifada. The Democratic nominee in Maine, who has the backing of many prominent Dems, is a literal Nazi. A congressman in Illinois, who was one of the most progressive in the house, was forced to retire because she wasn't sufficiently anti Israel. A senate candidate from Michigan sympathized with the shooter of a Jewish temple. Democrats have to stomp this out now instead of letting it take over like the Republicans did. 

mamdani's wife reposted and liked posts praising the october 7th massacres.  the nyt just published that jews are training dogs to rape arabs. 

the list goes on and on.

48 minutes ago, chasfh said:

I think we agree more than this exchange might suggest. My core point has never been that the left is blameless. It's that there's a meaningful difference between a party feeling electoral pressure on Israel policy versus a party being captured by antisemitic ideology. The former is happening with Democrats more so in recent times. The latter is what's happening on the right, and the two aren't comparable in scope or depth. That's my core point.

I'll note here that your hope that a new Israeli government brings Democrats back does suggest that the break between the two, at the governing party level at least, is really about policy, not prejudice, and that's a distinction I've been wanting to draw all along.

i dont disagree with much of that, however, mb's points are all true.  the democrats are now becoming the party where it is acceptable to cheer for the deaths of israeli jews.  

i think that MIGHT change with a different government in tel aviv.  

but it might not.  and i wouldnt be so blase about it if i were a jewish democrat.

at the end of the day, the most likely scenario is cossa backs up gibson in detroit and postava stays in GR to split time with augustine.

i dont think cossa has the trade value we think he does.  he HAS to be on an nhl roster next year and he's proven nothing at the nhl level.  he's been passed at the ahl level by postava.

if he does have value, its to a rebuilding team.  im not sure why edmonton is mentioned so much except for the fact that he played there in juniors.  gibson would seem more of what theyre looking for, especially if the wings took back salary.

i would be shocked if cossa got you a first round pick.  he might get a second.  maybe.  more likely, he gets you another team's mid-level prospect or he's part of a deal for a nhl regular along with another wings' prospect or two.

5 hours ago, romad1 said:

Oh boo hoo about Israel. The goddamn President is issuing himself checks from the treasury. 

you might use one of the 57 other threads about trump to discuss that.

3 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

LOL - China would be odd-bedfellows. The Russians may value Iran too much to go there.

i think the russians value upsetting the us more than any relationship with iran.  the russians will turn on anyone.

china is more likely.

42 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

I agree with this. The problem is that mainstream Dem policy disagreement with the current Israeli government draws an Arab emigree population (among others) to the party who actually are revuanchist wrt the existence of Israel and eventually they become a constituency for harder anti-semitism - IOW the situation brewing in Dearborn MI or Omar's district in MN.

This is a hard problem because I don't want the main stream Democratic party to be in bed with Netanyahu.

the thought leaders for the democrats have all turned against israel.  israel's cozying up to trump is a big driver in that.

that will eventually burn israel as they have now alienated their biggest historical supporter (american democrats) and will alienate their current american supporter (trump) because trump will turn on them after this iran business humiliates us.  they'll blame israel.

and then they'll REALLY have no one.  because lord knows Europe wont support them (nobody loves a good pogrom like spain and germany).  

they'll turn to russia at that point.  or china.

1 hour ago, chasfh said:

Paying attention is exactly the point. You're reading a governing trend from the noisiest data points: aldermanic social media posts, a primary race in a single Illinois district, candidates distancing themselves from AIPAC. That's real political pressure, and I don't dismiss it. But political pressure from a vocal constituency is not the same as ideological capture of a governing party. The Democratic mainstream haven't abandoned Israel, but while they have complicated their relationship with the current Israeli government, that's not the same thing, and besides, it's what Israeli opposition figures and mass protest movements have done as well.

The distinction that actually matters is the one between policy-driven anti-Israel sentiment (even when it's overwrought, and even when it edges into troubling territory) and the kind of ethno-nationalist, eliminationist antisemitism that has historically seized control of parties and governments, and is doing so again on the right in real time. The former is a problem that bears close watching. The latter is the thing that has historically gotten people killed. Conflating them because they share some surface rhetoric muddles, not sharpens, the analysis, and lets the genuinely dangerous version off the hook by treating it as merely one data point along a bipartisan spectrum.

I think you are underestimating what is occurring in the democratic party.

the same people who tell you that the republicans have been captured by maga - which is very true - are telling you the democrats will never be captured by anti-israeli sentiment?  i hope youre right, but all the signs point the other way.

the strongest supporter of israel is fetterman, and the democrats are ready to kick him out of the party.  josh shapiro has basically been ruled out for a presidential run because of it. 

i think that the democrats are currently "the sensible party" who believe in government institutions and maintaining the status quo.  i also think their activist class does not want that.  and the rising tide of voters dont want it either.  and anti-israel sentiment is part of that.

i dont understand how anyone can pay attention to politics and not see the democrats moving away from israel.  hopefully the next israeli election changes that, and we can get back to supporting our democratic ally in the middle east.  and hopefully the next american presidential election changes who is in charge here.

i have my doubts on both of those happening.

i havent been paying attention this year, but why do the tigers suck?  i know about skubal, but why is everyone else bad?

39 minutes ago, Deleterious said:

His bigger obstacle will be the league not letting him move.  After the Seattle debacle they are not letting another team leave a decent size market with good fan support over a stadium issue.  

i dont think the league would let him move to austin or nashville.

nashville will likely end up being the new home of the memphis grizzlies and i dont think austin can actually support a team.  san antonio would howl about that. four teams in texas?

vegas and seattle are the two areas that need teams and theyre slated for expansion cities.

the next places after that might be overseas.  mexico city or london.

do daryl morey is friends with sam.  got it.

1 hour ago, Deleterious said:

KZoo catching strays.

 

portland moving and NOT sacramento moving would be a crime.

2 hours ago, chasfh said:

I am pretty firmly on the left, and I am neither anti-American nor anti-western. I say that because I think it matters when evaluating whether the left, as a governing political force, has been captured by antisemitism, and I don't think it has.

On Israel specifically: I don't think the "colonizer" framing is wholly inaccurate. A significant strand of Zionist ideology has drifted rightward over decades toward expanded settlement, annexation, and in some quarters explicitly expulsionist thinking. That's documentable, not propaganda. And criticizing that trajectory isn't antisemitism, even if some people putatively on my side of the aisle weaponize the criticism in antisemitic ways.

On the broader point, I agree that rhetoric matters. But the distance between fringe influence and governing control is not the same on both sides right now, and I think that distinction is doing a lot of work that we keep glossing over. You mention presumed leaders of the far left now, and I know who Ilhan Omar is, but I had to look up Rossana Rodriguez, because I had no idea who she was. That's not an accident, because she's fringe. By contrast, the figures who set the Republican governing agenda are not fringe anymore—they are the agenda. The asymmetry is real and significant.

Are there people on the left moving toward antisemitism? Yes. Are there more than there used to be? Perhaps, maybe even probably. Is there any realistic danger they seize control of the Democratic Party the way nativist, antisemitism-coded elements have routinely seized control of conservative and reactionary parties throughout history, and are doing right now in the GOP? I don't see it. I don't think it's even close.

I'd just ask that we not fall into the trap of a "pox on both houses" framing, because while that feels fair and balanced, it obscures the fact that the two poxes are nowhere near alike in scope, scale, or institutional capture.

you say that, and yet the left is veering much more toward anti-israeli rhetoric as evidenced by the last election and the demonization of any candidate who dared take money from aipac or any other israeli supporting group.  if you had paid much attention to the last elections in chicago, you would have seen left wing candidates all do a desperate dance to distance themselves from israel, even in the most jewish district in the state, il-9, where the current jewish candidate retired and refused to endorse candidates in the district and around chicago who had taken money from jewish pacs like aipac (kat abuzelagh won most of the chicago portion of the district, but lost the suburbs to daniel biss, a jewish candidate who has denounced bibi netanyahu but has not gone as far as the other candidates in their extreme rhetoric toward israel).

the fact that you dont know that, and you dont know who the most vociferous alderman in your own city is who espouses rhetoric on social media about "please send me an anti-zionist doctor" (or sigcho who stands before burning american flags espousing "genocide") and phrases the city council resolutions on gaza that dont mention hamas at all tells me NOT that the rhetoric on the left is fringe, but that youre not paying attention.

the democratic party is very much moving away from israel, as are most left wing political parties in the western world (check out the latest british council election results and the rise of the green party).  part of this is israel's aggressive military campaign and how its covered in the western media, and part of it is good ol fashioned anti western attitudes of the new immigrant class that is increasing its influence in the west.

when people complain about "poxes on both houses", it usually means "dont dare put a pox on my house."  so it seems it is here.

we were all really down on them after game 4 vs orlando and they won that.  they can win this too.

3 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

Not even talking about Gaza -  they are and have been regularly dispossessing people and property on the West Bank without recourse.

that's not "colonizing" anything.

i agree that israeli actions in expanding its settlements is unhelpful and likely illegal.  israel is not without blame for its actions.

now, shall we discuss hamas and hezbollah's actions?  iran's actions and rhetoric?

24 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

Except that that is exactly what Israel is doing today in the West Bank. The State of Israel has bought and paid for the critique they are getting. 

Having sympathy with anyone is dubious when there are no good guys. 🫤

israel is not a "colonizer" state.

the situation in gaza is infinitely complicated by all the actors directly involved and those tangentially involved.

israel lives next door to multiple states who base their entire existence upon israel's destruction.  its in their founding documents, for god's sake.  THAT is the underlying issue.  the inability of "the palestinians" (really, the leadership of certain ethnic groups in the levant and iran's proxies) to move on and stop treating their people as human martyrs to the cause of killing jews.

that doesnt excuse israel for certain actions and things theyve done during the war, but it does set a certain tone for how it is forced to deal with its neighbors. 

the naiivety of many on the american left when it comes to hamas and iran reminds me of their naiivety surrounding their embrace of communism in the 50s and 60s.  anything that is anti-western is good.  

again, people being horrified by israeli tactics is understandable and not "anti-semitic". 

9 minutes ago, chasfh said:

You're describing real things, and I don't want to minimize any of it. The incidents in Chicago, the university harassment, the attacks on Jewish students, the Johnson administration's handling of that human rights report. All of that is documented, troubling, and worth calling out forcefully. But here's where I'd draw the line: what you're describing is a surge in antisemitic behavior in urban areas, much of it traceable to radicalized fringe actors, online agitators, and a specific political moment inflamed by the Gaza war. That's real. What I would resist is the leap from that to "the left"—let alone the Democratic Party—having embraced antisemitism as a core value. Johnson's handling of that report was cowardly and shameful. But a cowardly and shameful response as a concession borne of political calculation isn't the same as core ideological antisemitism, and it's definitely not representative of Democratic governance writ large.

The far left has absolutely provided cover for some of this, and that's a legitimate indictment of a certain strain of activist politics. But the far left isn't the Democratic Party, and recognizing the asymmetry that exists matters, because the Republican Party has largely been taken over by its radical wing, to the point where figures who would have been considered fringe a decade ago now set the governing agenda. That's not at all true of the Democrats. Nancy Pelosi, Chuck Schumer, and the party's mainstream leadership have been meaningfully critical of campus antisemitism and pro-Hamas rhetoric. The Democratic Party hasn't been captured by its loudest voices the way the GOP has, and pretending the two situations are equivalent in the interest of both-sidism actually lets the bad actors on the left off the hook by miscasting all this as mainstream partisan symmetry, rather than specific aberrant behavior that demands to be condemned.

So, yes to everything you're citing as real. No to the implication that Democrats own antisemitism as a value.

i dont think "the left" is anti-semitic.  i think the left is anti-american and anti-western.  the left has bought into the idea perpetuated in universities that israel is a "colonizer" and that therefore it is bad.  and trump supporting israel has inflamed the left because they hate everything trump touches (with good reason).

but i DO think that the rhetoric matters.  what the fringe right and the fringe left say filters into the mainstream (israel as a colonizer state is a good example of a fringe idea that has become mainstream left wing doctrine), and the left does have a number of prominent political figures who are moving ever so gently down the anti-semitic path.  ilhan omar is anti-semitic.  rossana rodriguez is anti-semitic.  to your point, those are fringe figures, but the fringe sometimes becomes the mainstream.

"i dont hate jews, i hate anti-zionists" is the equivalent of "i dont hate black people, i hate n-words."

and i say all of this 10x about the right.  they dont try to hide it like the fringe left.

37 minutes ago, oblong said:

agree with your assessment.  This is a case where many things are true all at the same time.  There is a genocide in Gaza and what many in the IDF and others are doing is horrific.  I just read something yesterday about rapes and beatings of women and children.  What happened on Oct 7, 2023 is equally horrific.  Netyenyahu is a bitch and finally got Trump to do his bidding.  He's a horrible individual.  Jews are being targeted with antisemitism and also people conflate criticism of the government in Israel with anti semitism.  It's all true.  But too many are forced to pick "sides" and have to tread lightly without offending someone who they also agree with on nearly everything.  I refuse to pick a side and pretend that's pure and free from atrocities.  

yeah, its a tough situation.  one that brings out a lot of emotion on all sides.

Just now, Sports_Freak said:

The Pistons are weak defending the 3 point play and at one point in the first quarter, the Knicks were 9 out of 10 on 3 pointers. They finished 25 of 44....57%. If they shoot like that, nobody in the East could beat them.

the knicks dont have interior defenders like the magic and cavs do.  it will be harder to neutralize duren (but not impossible, of couse, because duren isnt good at anything else), and he should be able to outmuscle kat's pansy ass.  now, duren cant GUARD kat, but they can put tobias on him.  ausar can guard brunson.

the pistons have owned the knicks this year because cade is now better than brunson.

whoever wins this game wins the series.

5 minutes ago, chasfh said:

I honestly don’t know what you’re referring to when you say this. I might be a bit ignorant of the details you’re aware of.

the protests at universities, the harassment of jewish students, the violence against jewish students, the increase in violence against jewish people all over the country, especially in large cities.  swastikas painted in new york and other places.  there were violent attacks last week against jewish people in new york again outside a synagogue.  there are security details in chicago assigned to synagogues up here by me.  multiple jewish people have been shot walking down the street in chicago over the past few years.

there has been a huge uptick in anti-semitic violence in major cities.  yes, the far right is always against jews (see tucker carlson and that nutty band of ignorant ****s), but now you've seen it in liberal areas as well.

the human rights commissioner for chicago recently resigned because mayor johnson insisted that she amend her report on anti-semitism in the city.  the report cited the huge upsurge in violence and threats against jews in the city, but johnson refused to release it unless it was changed to focus on other minorities.  the equivalent of making "black lives matter" into "all lives matter" so the report could be diluted and it wouldnt upset his far left supporters on city council like sigcho-lopez or rossana rodriguez.  the anti-israeli art exhibit at the chicago city museum.  the attacks on the two israeli students at depaul.

again, protesting israeli military actions in the middle east is one thing - everyone is entitled to their opinion on the war.  but its spilled over into a huge surge in violence in urban areas, fed largely by online agitators and the hysterical and over-the-top way we present news on social media now.  people are taking out their feelings about israel on jewish citizens.  its akin to people assaulting asians after covid, but on a much much larger scale.

we have 3000 years of history telling us how people treat jews differently. 

so reed outplays duren all series (all playoffs) but only sees the floor when the team is down 20.

ausar has two bad plays in a row and sits for the rest of the half.

stewart is hurt.  has to be.  he cant even jump.

which is concerning because that's two years in a row when he's been hurt for the playoffs.  maybe being undersized is causing it, but whatever it is, its not helping when it matters.