Betrayer

1 hour ago, Deleterious said:

JRIII's latest article puts the Pistons assets into tiers and he talks about the most likely to stay.

The prized possession tier is Cade and the 2024 pick.

Second tier is Not quite a prized possession and #3 most likely to stay is Thompson.

His next tier is high upside but circumstances.  Duren is #4 most likely to stay and Ivey is #5.

Next tier is Good players who the Pistons should want to keep and other teams should want, without the high upside.  Fontecchio and Stewart are 6A and 6B.

Next tier is Intriguing but lots to prove.  Sasser and Grimes are here.

Where do Monty, Weaver, and Silas fall on that list?

I like how Omari has been calling this team and org out a lot lately  

Jaden hit a lot of threes. Coach still ripped him after the game for his turnovers and shot selection. One of those two will be gone this offseason for sure. They can’t coexist. 

Jalen did another Drummond impression all game. All you had to see was that play at the 10 minute mark in the first quarter. Messy dribble drive into a bad contested shot that leads to a fast break by Memphis that Duren didn’t get back fast enough to contest. If that doesn’t say Dre, I don’t know what does. Of course he continued to do that stuff all game, so it didn’t end there.

Malachi who?

Along with the Sasser hype train, I think we can officially get back off the “Wiseman is improving” train as well. Honestly, without Cade both of the bigs are looking suspect.  

3 hours ago, casimir said:

 

Geeez, I also thought Ivey and Duren were an absolute steal for the Pistons.  I want to say they still have untapped potential, but I could be overestimating them.  And even if they have that growth there, is this franchise going to get that growth out of them?

And I'll add this, too.  If trading them away is the best option, is this franchise capable of making the best of that move?

I agree, there is still potential there and I also agree that it just may not happen here. However I think there are also two more questions to ask:

Even if they develop a bit more, do they fit? If these guys were superstars I wouldn't care about fit, but it's clear to me that they aren't and so they need to fit next to your franchise player. We need someone who can shoot and defend better than Ivey next to Cade. We also need a Center who can either space the court or defend, and Duren does neither well. You especially need him to space the court if you plan to develop Ausar. Sure, you could play Ivey as sixth man and maybe Duren shares minutes with a spacer or comes off the bench, but that gets to my next point...

We don't have a lot of other assets. @Deleterious asked what we could get for these players individually, and I don't know the answer to that, but I think you have to find out because we really don't have many other assets that can be packaged to improve this team. It's not that I dislike J&J and wouldn't want to see them on my team in some capacity. It's simply that they're both young and still have "potential", which is one of the few things you can sell to improve this roster. That clock is ticking though, so you'd have to do it this offseason.

In regards to whether or not this franchise is capable, I doubt it. That's why you need to clean house (GM and Coach both).

8 hours ago, Deleterious said:

 

Feel sorry for the player and the team...but watching Stephen A Smith nearly cry over this was definitely a guilty pleasure.

2 hours ago, Tigeraholic1 said:

Your game summaries are better than most beat writers. 

Thank you. I appreciate that.

I guess it turns out that watching every single Piston's game since 2001 earned me something other than 15 years of pain  😄 

1 hour ago, buddha said:

i wonder what wade or carmelo would have been if they ended up on detroit.

Carmelo would have been a champion.

Nice game from Flynn, but the bigger story to me was Jaden and Jalen.

Jaden continues his streak of playing terribly. Missing layups, missing threes, turnovers, and poor defense. No Cade in the lineup and you'd think he'd come out swinging. Instead he sat on the bench watching Flynn.

Jalen once again did his best Andre Drummond impression. Terrible dribble drives that end in a blocked shot or turnover. Jumpshots that he's not capable of making. Complaining to the refs on offense when they don't bail him out of terrible decisions while Atlanta runs it down the court to score.

When that draft happened, I thought we came out on top. But the more I see, the more disappointed I get. Maybe it's just bad habits learned from being on a team with no winners or winning culture. Either way, change needs to come at the end of this season, and the more I see the more I'm OK with one or both of these guys getting moved.

23 minutes ago, Deleterious said:

Sort of a depressing read.  Some bullet points.

He said nobody's job is safe when you are this bad.

He said he feels the likeliest Weaver scenario is he gets a boss.  He thinks Gores might hire a president and take away some of weavers control.

He said it is not a given that Monty is fired.  But he feels his seat is warmer than Weavers.

 

Hiring a President instead of firing Weaver is idiotic. We don't need more cooks in the kitchen. We've already got Weaver, Gores, and Tellem all pulling in different directions. Just clean house.

Silver lining is that Monty's seat is warm and firing him is a possibility. While it doesn't have as much impact on the long term outcome of the franchise (that's Weaver), it impacts the style of play I have to watch on court, so I'd welcome that change at least.

Of course, if you don't clean house in the front office, I don't know what kind of coach is going to come here. I doubt you're getting Atkinson or Quinn to leave their franchises. Maybe Ollie after the Nets hire their actual coach.

28 minutes ago, Deleterious said:

Milwaukee fired Adrian Griffin who was 30-13.  Doc Rivers is 15-14.

Hiring Doc Rivers was even dumber than hiring Monty Williams. At least we never had a chance at a championship no matter who our coach was.

Also, this game was a masterclass in bad coaching.

Watching JJJ look like Lebron against the Pistons in 07 with no strategy to get the ball out of his hands. Watching both Cade and Ivey sit on the bench at the same time when they were the only ones cooking. How about that play with 33 seconds to go that clearly went off the Memphis player after Jaden tapped it? Nope, no challenge. Pretty sure we could've used an extra possession right there in a 2 pt game. I guess Monty was saving his timeout? Of course, he didn't use that timeout after we secured the rebound with about 8 seconds to go in order to call a play for this young team either.

I keep hearing idiots say, "You gotta give Monty a year with a real team." No. No you don't. Any coach will do better with better players. They'll still play below their potential under Monty because he's a terrible coach. Even worse than Casey, and that's saying something.

4 hours ago, Deleterious said:

Wonder what the record is for most players on a roster in a season.

 

It's 31. Grizzlies have it this season. Pistons are at 30. With this signing, I guess they're now tied.

2 hours ago, Deleterious said:

I didn't realize he was going to go that high.

 

I don't watch much college ball, but just watching that clip he looks like a dude that's going to get eaten alive in space against NBA athletes. Might be a solid drop coverage backup Center though.

1 hour ago, casimir said:

I’m sorry.  It all starts with getting rid of Weaver.

I guess I just felt like I said that enough that it goes without saying at this point  😄

Step 1: Fire Weaver
Step 2: Fire Monty
Step 3: Roster Stuff

The hunt for a new GM should've been going on behind the scenes since the losing streak even if Gores doesn't like to fire people mid-season. At this point you should have a short list to interview and hire one before the end of the playoffs.

Do I actually believe any of this will happen? Nope.

3 hours ago, Deleterious said:

Another bad have from Risacher. Only 4 points. Hope the pistons pass on him if he is there.

I'm feeling like I'd rather take Sarr. Bring him of the bench for now as he gets his NBA legs and don't bring back Wiseman. Make a decision next off-season (or at the deadline if Sarr blows up) about him versus Duren.

Trade Ivey (and some contracts) and get a 3&D wing.

Scrap all of this if Brooklyn will take any combo of Ivey/Duren/Pick for Mikal Bridges.

1 hour ago, Deleterious said:

Yep.  I don't want to do anything radical like ban the 3PT shot.  But they need to do something that brings all shot types back to being valid.  No clue how you do that though.  

For offensive diversity, you have to reduce the efficiency of the three versus the two so they can be on equal footing again. Maybe dropping the corner three where it goes from 24' to 22' would accomplish that. That's the easiest three and the one that makes the spacing era work so well because you can plant guys in both corners making defensive recovery more difficult and creating a lot of open, efficient threes. Without that, it's easier to defend the three so it'll be a tougher shot. Still worth it for many good shooters but not for every dude who can just stand there and make open shots.

As for defense, I've been saying this for a while now. First, allow the defensive player the right to his position on the court. No more crashing into a defender or throwing your arms into his to get a call. Second, stop allowing guys to move on every single screen (go watch Brook Lopez) so the defense can actually guard. Third, officiate like you do in the playoffs all the time.

52 minutes ago, Deleterious said:

 

This is actually a problem for the NBA product, imo. There's only one way to play and since defense has also been regulated against, the game is very one dimensional now. Maybe it's bringing them more casual fans and that's working for them so they don't care, but it's kind of made things a bit boring once you get past the superficial layer of hype.

1 hour ago, Deleterious said:

My summer plan.

I go all in on the Bridges. Ivey, Duren and picks for Mikal. Sign Miles (I know I know) in free agency.  Then sign Nic Claxton in free agency. Any money left goes for a veteran off the bench 

Starters are Cade, Bridges, Bridges, Fontecchio, Claxton.

Four of those guys should shoot north of 35% from three. I think three of them could average over 20 points a game. Claxton gives you everything Duren provides on offense and is an elite shot blocker plus a candidate for all defensive team.

Sasser, Thompson, Stewart, free agent is a respectable bench. 

That team makes the playoffs IMO.

Obviously there are some issues.

Trading for Bridges won't be easy. I don't want to pay Claxton more than $20m a year and I think he will cost more. You have to look past the other Bridges beating the **** out of his wife.

Eh, we're more likely to end up with Todd Bridges.

Solid plan and better than most I've heard. I'm all in on Mikal as well.

I wouldn't go after Miles because I think he should be out of the league regardless of his basketball abilities and don't want to root for him on my team. But, I get that he's a solid player. Even so, I'd actually prefer someone who shoots and/or defends better because he's mediocre to poor at both. I'd even look at old man Tobias before Miles (depending upon the price).

Also, I'd be fine with Hartenstein if you miss on Claxton. Jalen Smith would be a nice backup who can also stretch the floor to replace Wiseman.

That said, my summer plan starts with firing Monty and Weaver and I'm not sure any of this matters otherwise.

If anyone in this front office or coaching staff survives the first week of this offseason, the NBA should step in and remove Gores immediately.

They (the NBA) won't. Just saying they should.

24 minutes ago, Deleterious said:

Shams was on some podca and said Houston offered Jalen Green and multiple first round picks for Mikal Bridges. Brooklyn turned them down.

Well, I guess we're not getting him for Ivey and multiple firsts then. Our first this year will be better, but Green is better than Ivey. I doubt expiring contracts are enough to sweeten the deal more.

Then again, the Nets may be in a very different head space at the end of the season after they miss the play-in.

Adding Duren could swing the deal either way, since they might lose Claxton to a much bigger contract this offseason and Duren is 4 years younger. However, there's no way this front office moves Duren.

I swear, everyone needs to be fired from the Owner himself on down through the GM, the Coaches, and the Medical Staff. This team is an absolute joke. Clean house.

Maybe the dancers and that team that jumps off trampolines can stay. Maybe.

Ugh, expansion.

The stars aren't going to just spread out and create more parity. It just means more bottom feeders, blowouts, and a greater disparity between top and bottom teams.

Of course, the League wants it anyway, because even bad teams like Detroit continue to make money for the league regardless of the terrible on-court product.

There's a clip going around of James Harden passing the ball to Kawhi and then running over to try to block his corner three. It's the most insane thing I've ever seen.

Edit: Here's it is:

I'm not sure about the Cade vs Hali discussion, but I'm willing to hope you could be right over the long haul.

Things is, we may never know because the organization and coaches are so incompetent.

What would Cade look like under a real coach like Rick Carlisle? Watch the Pacers play. They do everything with purpose. Guys are cutting, screening, not hesitating, passing and catching the ball ready to go immediately or relocate. Everyone is on a string off the ball or on the ball. Yes, they have more talent overall, but even their scrubs play that way. That's  100% coaching. Rick is a coach that can make a team better than the sum of its parts. Monty is exactly the opposite. 

15 minutes ago, Deleterious said:

Will Cade sign an extension this summer?

He will. He'd be stupid not to because all players know they can just ask for a trade afterwards.

The real question is whether or not he should get a max. Is he Haliburton?

A lot of people were coping with drafting Hayes over Haliburton because it meant we were bad enough to get Cade. But right now, I'd trade Cade, Ivey, and Duren for Haliburton and Indy would laugh at me for suggesting it. That's what a max rookie looks like. Is that Cade?

I like him, but does a guy who's more likely to be an All-Star reserve than an All-Star starter or Superstar deserve a max? If you spend your cap space maxing out All-Star reserves after 12 win seasons can you build a winner?

That's pretty scary stuff, regardless of basketball. Blood clots, especially a PE which it what this sounds like, can be deadly. I'm hoping he's ok and recovers well.

Beyond that, speaking as a fan, it's just another gut punch for a season full of them.