4hzglory

Here would be a sample deal to show what MB is saying.

Goff currently has a cap hit of $32.3 mil for 2024 with 22.3 in salary, 5 mil roster bonus and 5 mil prorated signing bonus.

A proposed 4 year $200 mil extension with $90 mil signing bonus and $125 mil guaranteed new money could look like something like this.  

If they add a void year, the signing bonus would get spread over 6 years - current 2024, 4 year extension, plus the 1 void year.  So the signing bonus allocation would be $15 mil per year.

2024:  convert $15 mil of his $27.3 mil salary/roster bonus to new signing bonus.  Cap hit would be $12.3 mil salary, $5 mil from previous signing bonus + $15 mil new signing bonus allocation for total cap hit of $32.3 mil - identical to current.

2025: Fully guaranteed salary of $15 mil + $15 mil signing bonus allocation for cap hit of $30 mil

2026:  Fully guaranteed salary of $20 mil + $15 mil signing bonus allocation for cap hit of $35 mil

2027:  Salary of $35 mil ($15 mil fully guaranteed - gets to the $125mil guaranteed new money) + $15 mil signing bonus allocation for cap hit of $50 mil

2028:  Salary of $40 mil + signing bonus allocation for cap hit of $55 mil

2029 void year:  signing bonus allocation of $15 mil for cap hit of $15 mil

So proposed cap hits of $32.3 mil in 2024 (identical to current), $30 mil in 2025, $35 mil in 2026 - almost an identical average for those 3 years as his 2024 hit.

Obviously they would have roster bonus'/other ways of adjusting the hits if they wanted more cap space in certain years, but this would also allow them to get out of the deal after 2026 if they had to for a dead money hit of $60 million which is $10 million more than what his 2027 cap number would be if they kept him, or they could spread it over 2 years and free up $20 million in 2027, $25 mil in 2028, and $15 mil in 2029.  If they cut him after 2027, they would have a dead money hit of $30 mil which if they didn't spread it over 2 years, would save them $25 mil on the cap  in 2028 and $15 mil in 2029. - so no major pill like the Hurts deal.

This is just a lot to say/show that a 4 yr $200 mil extension can simply be structured to not cripple the cap.  The team would have many other roster bonuses/etc to further manipulate the cap numbers besides this.

42 minutes ago, Jimbo said:

.  I also look at what I feel like other teams would pay for him if he was a free agent. Non of that matters if we win a Superbowl or are contenders for it for the next few years.

I think Cousin's deal shows that he would likely get at least around 4 yrs $200 mil on the open market.

I definitely don't want them to go crazy, but IMO he has earned around that and whenever he signs, his first 2 years will likely be at a similar or lower cap hit than he has had the last 2 seasons.  It would be the last couple years where the cap hit would increase, but by then the cap will be significantly higher as well. 

24 minutes ago, oblong said:

and this affects all teams on Bally who's customers are Xfinity.

I'm listening on the app now.  I tried mlb.tv but it's blacked out.

Yes, we are in Florida and got the notice from Xfinity also.  Fortunately we can watch Tiger games on MLBTV except when they are in Tampa.

42 minutes ago, RedRamage said:

If you're grading on a curve, yeah. But this is kinda like the PFF method of grading. Each pick can only get an A+ grade. ARSB should be like an A+++++++++ grade. Top 10 player at his position in round 4? Yeah, that's big time score! But if you can only be A+ per pick, then you average all the picks, you come out with an A- because of Levi.

Having said that, this isn't probably the best way to grade a draft.

How about this:

All Pro:  100%

Pro Bowl:  95%

Starter on playoff caliber team:  90%

Starter on team like the 2021 Lions/ solid rotational player currently 80%

Special Teams contributer/still on roster contributing10-25% of snaps:  70%

Still on roster, barely contributing:  60%

Contributed some over years, but not on current roster: 50%

Not in Football:  F

Round bonus:

Round 1:  0% Round 2:  5% Round 3: 10% Round 4: 15% Round 5: 20% Round 6: 25% Round 7: 30%, FA: 35%

So 2021:

Sewell:  100% + 0 bonus = 100%

Levi: 60% + 5% bonus = 65%

Aim:  95% + 10% = 105%

Iffy:  80% + 15% = 95%

St Brown:  100% + 20% = 120%

Barnes: 80% + 20% = 100%

Jefferson:  50% + 35% = 85%

Wright:  80% + 35%  =115%

Jacobs:  70% + 35% = 105%

Total 890%/9 = 98.89%

Definitely and A  to A+ 

16 minutes ago, MichiganCardinal said:

When Holmes traded Hock at 1-6, I remember he claimed that he would have done it even if we were 6-1. McNeill might test that.

If you can get a low-end first for him from a team like Miami, Houston, or Cincinnati, or a high-end second from Denver or New York (Giants), I think you have to think long and hard about it - if, and only if, you've decided you can't afford to keep him. You're not in desperation win-now-at-all-costs mode. If his replacement struggles, you're going to get flak for it, no doubt. But if you're Dan Campbell losing your best interior defender, you have to treat it just like you would a season-ending injury. Next man up.

It's probably accurate that it makes more sense to make the decision at the end of 2024, but you can't tag both McNeill and Decker. Hopefully they can extend at least one of them. I'd probably prefer Decker if I'm being honest, the offensive line is the heart of this team.

I don't think they will need to tag Decker.  He has already said he would love to do a deal and knows others need paid.   I also think there are other options at RT for a year if you would lose Decker and Sordsdal/Manu aren't ready.  I definitely don't see them signing him long term unless he takes a reasonable amount below what he could get on the market and they are only locked in for 2 more years.  Again, Decker's comments indicate that could happen, but I don't see him being franchised at all.

Also, they are in a completely different situation now than they were in 2022.  Even if they were 6-1 then, they knew they were not a championship calibar team.  They know they are now.

11 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said:

Something that is rarely used but I think would be worth using with McNeil is the transition tag. It essentially makes him a restricted free agent and allows the Lions to match any offer sheet. Let him test the market and if it gets out of hand let him walk. 

I'd be surprised if they used it as the only compensation you would get would be the normal comp pick formula for lost FA's and with drafting Wingo I think the goal is to develop a more cost effective option long term.  I could see them paying McNeil for a year at the Franchise Tag #, but don't know they want to go long term at $25 mil +/yr that he would likely get on the market if he puts up another Pro Bowl caliber season.  Not that they don't like him, or he won't deserve it, just you can only pay so many guys top $.  Definitely the 1 problem with drafting so many guys that hit.  Obvious positive is, if you keep doing that, you can pay the guys you have to pay and keep bringing in/developing young guys to take the other's spots when they get too expensive.

15 minutes ago, buddha said:

you dont trade a player like that in a super bowl window.

and you cant pay everybody.

If he plays worth deserving it and they want, they can always franchise him next year and then trade him.

28 minutes ago, Motor City Sonics said:

Because my theory is you can't get a feel for a player for at least 3 years (some say 4),  These are my grades for the 2021 Detroit Lions Draft.

1st Round -  Needs to be a major contributor by year 2

2nd Round -  Needs to be a starter or rotational guy (double-digit snaps per weeK)

3rd Round -  Needs to be a plus player.   

4th Round -  Need to be a depth player you can count on from time to time

5th Round - If they can at least contribute on Special Teams,  Fine

6th Round / 7th Round -  If they can stick with the team at all for a season, It's positive

 

ROUND 1 - OT PENEI SEWELL   A+     One of the best in the game 

ROUND 2 - DT  LEVI ONWUZURIKE   D    Injuries derailed him (but they knew about that when they took him)

ROUND 3 -  DT  ALIM McNEIL  A+   A bona fide runstopper with more athleticism than his physique.  

ROUND 3  CB  IFFY MELIFONWU  B   Was a ghost until middle of last year and then looked great.  Tough position to learn, it takes time.  Sample size is too small for an  A

ROUND 4  WR AMON-RA ST. BROWN  A+    One of the best receivers in football.  Mr. Reliable and a drive that fits this staff perfectly.  This guy is the heart of the team on the players side.  

ROUND 4  LB  DERRICK BARNES  B.   Like Iffy, it's a tough position to learn quickly but we finally saw flashes of what he could be and he should get better

ROUND 7 RB JAMAR JEFFERSON   B    He gets a B because of where he was drafted.  He made the team and made some plays.  Can't ask for much more from a 7th rounder, honestly.  

 

A-

 

This was the best Lions draft BY FAR in my memory (going back to about 1977, 78).   The only thing that prevents it from getting an A+ was they continued the tradition of bad 2nd round picks, but that seemed to get corrected the next year.   They covered their mistake by taking the same position in round 3.       I mean, 3 All-Pro level players.    If only they'd nailed the 2nd round in 2021.  

2024 left me a little puzzled, but so did last year. 

Trust In Brad

 

2 All Pro players, 3 Pro Bowlers, 5 Starter/significant rotational players, everyone still on the team that should have won the NFC Championship game and the don’t get a straight A or A plus?   
 

so if St Brown was just a starter, but Levi was a significant rotational guy they would have gotten an A?  LOL

Just now, Mr.TaterSalad said:

I guess we're rolling with Badgley unless we sign a UDFA or bring in a camp body. 

There are still veteran FAs also

3 minutes ago, buddha said:

every team looks great on draft night.

And the Vikings have now traded 2nd, 3rd, and 4th round 2025 picks

28 minutes ago, Edman85 said:

That is not my recollection of 2012-2014. Not at all.

Yeah, we had a great starting 5 the vast majority of the playoff run.  It was the bullpen that was unpredictable.

6 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said:

He would still get cut. This in no way is job security for Cominsky because the cost to the Lions to cut him is still the same. 

Actually the cost is now $500k more for the Lions to cut him and he gets the $500k now that he wouldn’t otherwise.

15 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said:

Armstead is the 2nd highest cap hit for the 49ers who are projected to be over the cap. They had to make a move. The Lions are well below the cap and asking players who they just signed to small contracts to take pay cuts. I'm surprised the NFLPA doesn't say something. 

The NFLPA doesn’t say anything because it’s common practice and the player would rather take the pay cut rather than be cut, not likely find a better contract and have to move.

if the player thinks they can get a better situation, they refuse the pay cut and are released.

Cominsky also got an extra $500k of his contract guaranteed and paid right away as a bonus.

5 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said:

The Lions have nearly $30 million in cap space even with the Carlton Davis $14 million cap hit but it was really important to get that extra $2 million in space from Cominsky. 

The bears had the most cap room and were cutting players.  

2 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said:

Have the 49ers asked four players to do it in two years? 

Not sure- how many have they released?  You hear of teams asking guys to take ay cuts all the time and if they don’t, they cut them.  It isn’t a Lions only thing.

6 minutes ago, MichiganCardinal said:

Yes, but only if their contract is expiring. Like teams can't reach out and talk to Jared Goff, he's under contract. But as of Monday they could talk to CJGJ, whose contract expires today.

Arik Armstead is under contract, but it's already been announced he is going to be released by the 49ers because he refused to take a significant pay cut and he has a $28MM cap hit. Teams can't tamper with him though, because even though the Niners announced they're going to cut him, they haven't yet, so he's still under contract. There is a chance with him too that the 49ers wait until June 1st to cut him. They would spread out their dead cap implications to him if they do.

Wait, the 49ers asked him to take a pay cut?  I thought only the Lions did that.

5 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said:

This is not understood. This doesn't happen often in the NFL and the Lions are doing it way more than anyone else. On top of that, the Lions aren't even hurting for cap space and they are asking players to take pay cuts. Combined with not spending a lot on free agents and the Lions are going to get a reputation for being a cheap team. 

This does happen all the time in the NFL.  The Packers just did it with Aaron Jones who decided to take being cut and sign with the Vikings 

1 minute ago, 4hzglory said:

I believe they got this idea from the XFL or some other league anyway 

Yes, it was used in the XFL-first article that came up

https://www.sportingnews.com/ca/nfl/news/nfl-xfl-kickoff-rules-changes/vqjfcemjh6xexxygvslwha2r

2 hours ago, RedRamage said:

On a side note (not an onside note mind you), if the NFL had a relationship with the UFL, this would be one of those things where they could have the UFL "play test" the rule change and see how fans like it, how it worked on the field, and how teams game planned around it.

I believe they got this idea from the XFL or some other league anyway 

5 hours ago, LongLiveMaroth said:

Burnes is obviously a good pitcher but that seems like a lot for a 1 year rental.

By trading for him now, they will at least get a draft pick if he leaves.  (He would obviously get a qualifying offer)

13 minutes ago, RedRamage said:

I think it's more that the NFL isn't paying them enough to NOT have to work another job. I obviously have zero inside information here, I don't know how much they pay or whatever... but I guess I'm thinking more along the lines of this:

The employer only needs you to work from January to July and only pays you for those months. They don't pay you as much as you'd like to have year round, so you get another job from August thru December. During that Aug-Dec time you're getting out of practice of your Jan-Jul job... you're forgetting details, you're not remembering all the steps you used to take to complete the job... then you come back in January and have to spend part of the time re-learning the old job as well as learning any new twists.

What the employer should do to get the most out of you is pay your year round and during the Aug-Dec you can be reviewing last year's work, making suggestions for improvements, talking with clients to get a good understanding of what they want, learning the new stuff before January, doing some practice runs in December and be 100% ready to go in January. You'll be a much more productive and accurate employee this way (in theory).

The obvious downside here is that the employer has to pay you for 12 months instead of 7. The employer may not see that as cost beneficial... the added cost of those other 5 months doesn't produce enough better of an employee to make it worth it. BUT: Your clients are complaining to the employer that you're not doing a very good job and could using more training and practice. If the employer is a pretty hard successful company and could pretty easily afford to pay you year round and make the clients happier... it seems like the employer is just a cheap bastard.

The average salary is $205k. 
for comparison, mlb umpires make between $150k and $450k and have 9-10 times as many games 

14 hours ago, TP_Fan said:

It was 12 games.  Now we are down to 9 after tonight.  25 percent of what needed to happen to miss the playoffs has happened. 

Or just win 1 game.  If they lose to Minnesota twice in 3 weeks they probably don’t deserve to be in.

7 minutes ago, RatkoVarda said:

Stupid to downgrade to Schreve over 2m last year 

They actually upgraded to Holton  by letting Chafin go.  AZ had to waive Holton  to sign him.

4 hours ago, Jason_R said:

 

McDermott is melting down. 

It was from 2019-absolutely terrible statement, but not sure why it’s brought up 4 years later 

9 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

That program has so much institutional inertia that Brutus Buckeye could probably coach them to 11-1. Jon Cooper had to have been a really bad HFC to have struggled like he did.

Cooper coached them to 11-1, just could never beat Michigan