mtutiger

I guess with TORK, even with the struggles he's had over the last two weeks, he's just not the biggest problem this team has at the moment. And AJ, for his part, has recently been slotting him in the two-spot with regularity of late. Some of that is lack of options, but even so it stands to reason he still believes in TORK and his approach, even if the results haven't been there much of this year. I do admit having a lot of satisfaction at seeing him do what he did last night not just because he's important to this baseball team, but also because, fairly or unfairly, he bears an abnormal amount of brunt for their struggles as a team. Sure, it owes to his status as a 1-1, I get it... but he's still 23 years old with a little over 600 MLB ABs, who really didn't have a long stint in the minors. And the metrics are better this year, and unlike last year, he hasn't looked hopeless at the plate. The best version of this team going forward has Spencer Torkelson as a big contributor to their success, so he should be given every chance to succeed. Especially given that, outside of Keith and maybe Jung, I don't see many possible studs coming up behind Tork (or Greene) at the moment

I dont know that mediocrity is the right word - there are successful Republicans, or even MAGA types out there. But as people have become more animated by politics or have had their identities wrapped up in politics, I do think it makes it harder to want to have to deal with having to navigate those political differences. I ended up with someone similar, probably more liberal even, then I was using the apps back in the early-mid 10s... but I didn't really factor in political ideology as well and made contact with people who were more conservative. But it was a different time... fast forward to today, I'm not sure I would want to deal with it myself given how politics tends to bring out the worst in people these days, particularly on the right

First point you make is particularly true of DeSantis... I'm not sure he's made a single media appearance outside of the conservative echo chamber to-date.

Sometimes that's all you need to do. We remember Miguel for all the homers and hits, but he also made a living hitting fly balls to get that runner home from third. If Spencer wants to hit his potential, he's gonna have to hit those long flyouts in that situation more consistently as well.

Surprised we aren't getting more "old friend" alerts on that front tbh

I had assumed you declared the product dead back in April, tbh

We aren't far enough removed from Avila for him to have 0%

A little over 20 years ago, Dave Dombrowski uncorked his "you try and trade him" rant. Granted there are younger fans who don't remember that, but certainly almost everyone here remembers it one would imagine. I dont know that the situation now is as dire as it was in 2002, but it certainly isn't that much different either. They don't have a lot of tradable assets and, to the extent that free agency isn't all about $$$$$$$$$, it's one of the least marketable products going in the sport. Harris will get grief because it is part of the job, but I dont have a great understanding of how people can sit and complain about Avila set the Tigers behind by years and how they have no chance at competing until 2026, and yet complain about Harris not being in a "win-now" posture. Just doesn't make a lot of sense to me

And somehow, he's still probably the best hitter in the lineup (outside of Carpenter anyway)

This broadcast may be worse than the results

Perhaps you are right... I also think location matters a lot in the Rangers case as well; it's probably a more desirable market than Detroit. But again one could argue that Baez/Rodriguez were significant investments on the level of Pudge/Magglio and they havent exactly worked out like expected either. In the Rangers case, they didn't get to where they are just on their free agent signings. They needed the core to come through and they did. Until that changes in the Tigers case, we are really just arguing over a range between 65-70 and 70-75 wins when we discuss free agency imo

I have posted multiple times about the Rangers over and what they did in the Rebuilding thread, so I'm not going to rehash it all again other than to say they have gotten significant contributions from their young core (Jung, Duran, Leody Tavares, etc.)... as significant as the investments were in free agents, they were to supplement the young core, not the other way around. And one imagines that was part of their sales pitch over the past couple of seasons. The Tigers, for their part, did go out and spend some money after 2021 when it was believed (or wishcasted anyway) they were close. But last season did them no favors... the young pitchers have either been injured and/or underperformed, Torkelson has underwhelmed, and Greene has had an up-and-down go of it when he has actually been on the field. And the guys they did sign, outside of Chafin, have, for a variety of reasons, underperformed their contracts. Simply put, the Rangers made a bet on their core and it has worked out. Outside of maybe 84Lives, I doubt there is a single person on this board who would bet on the Tigers young core as it exists today if it was their resources

It's a fair point, but particularly in Fulmer's case, he hasn't really pitched well enough to be missed. And he's been pretty bad in leverage situations with the Cubs

Perhaps at the macro level, but on a case by case basis, the factors that make individual free agents tick are much different. And simply put, I largely don't think fans think about that or care... I bring up Brandon Drury a lot because it ilicited a visceral reaction on this board when he signed with Anaheim last offseason. It later came out that he said that he, iirc, he accepted less money to stay on the west coast and closer to his family. We don't know if the Tigers were in on Drury or not and probably never will, but even if they were, probably the only way to obtain him is to offer a dramatic overpay and pay him way more than he is worth. Obviously as fans, it's not our money... but from a fiduciary perspective, among other reasons, I am not going to blame any organization for not desperately offering a dramatic overpay to a mid-level free agent. And if they did sign him to a dramatic overpay and he didn't perform to the level of his contract? I'm sure the fanbase would complain then too. Great example of that over in Kansas City in Jordan Lyles, who somehow got 2-$17M to put up a 7 ERA through the first half of this year

To be fair, it could also be a blip as well - even last year's pen, which was also very good on balance, had off games.

Michael Fulmer and Gregory Soto haven't been good this year, for what its worth

He was on the field for 120 games last year and it didn't work out. And if I were a betting man, it probably won't work out this year either. Ohtani is a generational talent, but this isn't the NBA... having a couple of stars without a decent enough supporting cast doesn't really work.

100%... not necessarily on this board but prominent voices in Tigers media keep trying to claim drama where there is none. And from AJ's perspective, he has looked engaged all throughout this season like someone who is invested as a stakeholder. And he has a front office background dating back to before he was in Houston... he understands where the org is at and undoubtedly he understands the long game better than the old school, Jimmy Smokes type of manager. I won't go as far as to say he'll be here many years from now. But if he's gone, it won't be via him quitting.... he isn't Bobby Ross or Jimmy Smokes ca. 1999.

I know you are joking, but still, Ohtani currently has Trout on the same team and has missed the playoffs with regularity since joining MLB.

I've said it before, but I still think this was part of the appeal for Harris when he evaluated this job. They are still a ways away from where the team needs to be. But this team isn't exactly competing with murderers row within the division either. And as dysfunctional as the Tigers have been, sharing a division with the White Sox and Royals in particular, I'm not even sure they are the worst org in the division currently. And even in terms of resources, as much people bitch about Chris I (and not entirely without reason), the ownership groups in Kansas City, Cleveland and Chicago (under that dinosaur Reinsdorf) are objectively more spendthrift than the Tigers ownership. It's such an underdiscussed point in evaluating where they stand, imo.

It's honestly a fair point... they did sign those free agents after 2021. But for some reasons, their activity during that offseason is usually discounted or ignored. Probably in large part because of a lack of results and preference for other free agents. But, honestly, seeing how each of the signings from 2021-2022 played out, save maybe Chafin, should be reason enough for skepticism about the idea that free agents alone can change the trajectory of the org. At their current state, at best, they are bandaid. And it will remain that way until, like Tampa or Cleveland or even the big spending Dodgers, they can demonstrate an ability to identify and develop talent from within

Not a chance... only useful players end up on the IL with this team lol

Haha, need to do this more often 🤪

If I had to guess, to the extent that he has evaluated, Harris views this org overall as not being where it needs to be to make that kind of investment. And it makes sense... I have seen a lot of complaints on this board, including from people who decry the lack of free agent signings, about how long it will take for this team to compete. I've seen 2026/2027 suggested at times (that's a bit pessimistic, at least in terms of the division they play in imo). And then same people will turn around and question why they didn't go out and sign Carlos Correa, who likely will regress to being a worse player by the time the org is actually positioned to compete in their view, particularly in light of the injury concerns Like, at a macro level, it just doesn't compute to me.