mtutiger

Positional versatility has been there right alongside control the strikezone in terms of cliches since Spring Training

Nobody has ever said that. But if Candelario was brought back, and then proceeded to go out and suck this year, I highly doubt anyone would be be suggesting that not bringing him back would have been a mistake. And yes, after the season he had in 2022, one where he was a big part of the problem, that was within the realm of possibility of outcomes.

They did, but because of his status as a non-tender candidate, they had to make a decision before the free agent market ever got off the ground. And they made it.... Who knows, maybe they actually did try to obtain other candidates during free agency and it didn't pan out. We don't really know that. Obviously Harris and/or Hinch will take flak for that, that goes with the territory. But one of my points, that I've been making for months now, is that I'm not going to take the position that it was fine to do what they did and then, retroactively, update it after they weren't able to backfill in the best possible way or when Candelario ended up having a better than expected year. That's called intellectual inconsistency. And with Candy being a free agent at the end of this year, it's just not the end of the world.... it feels like Paredes was a far worse outcome for this franchise and yet that topic has even received less time than flogging this horse has taken lol At the end of the day as well, I said this at some point recently, a lot of this comes down to the tendency of this current regime to tightly control information. They probably have more legit reasons for doing what they did here, whether one agrees with them or not, but that's also not publicly available information.... I'm sure in terms of the trade, there are benefits from that, but in terms of media and PR, it leaves a vacuum to be filled that the Tigers beat writers and fanbase are more than willing to fill. Often rooted in speculation rather than anything concrete.

Death, taxes, Tigers fans and writers ruminating about "old friends"

What happened in 2022? Seems like that should be accounted for in this discussion.

The role players are controllable for far longer... Candy has one good year and walks.

Incidentally, I believe the bolded could be a reason they didn't bring Candy back..... Harris/Hinch value versatility, and Candelario isn't versatile. Maybe despite whatever bounce back upside he may have had, they didn't see him as part of the long term picture and moved on.... which is fine.

Maybe they would have.... but that's sort of the point, the butterfly effect comes into play when we come up with hypotheticals about "well, they could have signed Candelario AND brought Maton/Vierling in".... we don't know what the mindset of the front office was with respect to Candelario or his presence on the roster, and it is possible that his presence causes them to deprioritize certain areas where they did acquire in the offseason. As I said above, others will have different point of views, but the hypotheticals don't fly with me.... the way the offseason laid out, and with them having to make the decision on Candy before doing literally anything else leaves way too much uncertainty to reach those conclusions.

From what had been reported about the trade, the two sides hadn't even been talking about any of these players around the time of the nontender deadline. Given that, I don't know that is clear at all that the trade would have happened.

Getting some Kerry C vibes from Justice Bigbie...

It doesn't preclude, per se, but it doesn't guarantee the chips fell as they otherwise did during this past offseason either.

Trust me, I get it from a production standpoint. But balancing the short term fortunes of the team and the long term fortunes of the team are two different things.... as you suggest, injuries have been a factor as well and they will get a couple of players back. Hopefully that will happen. And I would add, regarding your last point, I don't know if it is smart for a front office to manage a team entirely off of pressure from it's fanbase.

It's true. I do think the defensive piece is a huge factor for both Keith and JHM.... it's easy to point at the statline and say "call em up".... but they need to have a position to play at which they are competent. JHM isn't there yet, and I don't know that Keith (setting aside PPI and other considerations) is either from what I understand.

Back to the Candelario discussion lol.... Food for thought: if they resign Candelario, is Zach McKinstry a Tiger today? Do they actually make the Phillies trade which, as bad as Nick Maton was, also did bring back Matt Vierling? Maybe that's a fine outcome, even preferable, YMMV... but they had a small window to make a decision after the 2022 season ended, before any free agency happened, and they made it. And we have to acknowledge that, because of butterfly effect, it could have had impacts on acquisitions that would have happened afterward and that might have not been entirely great either. I'm happy for Candy, but idk, I don't think it's a huge loss....

Not sure if you are referring to the prospects or the veterans down there, but in the case of the prospects, I just wonder if they view them a little more skeptically or are just more cautious than the rest of us appear to want to be. And what data they may have that lead them to that conclusion. In general, Harris takes a lot of flak because he doesn't provide a ton of information to the media or give much to work with... it creates a vacuum that inevitably people in the media/fanbase will backfill. But OTOH, all of that is just noise and it stands to reason there are advantages to being less forward as well.

Yep... they are not in the AL Beast, so as frustrating as they have been, it can turn around going forward

To be honest, I think that is what the 2023 Detroit Tigers are...

And fast forward to today, it's still the fans. Instinctively, I get it, this team hasn't done jack in seven years so the prospect of bringing up Keith and/or Malloy/Meadows is appealing, particularly while the team struggles offensively. But the front office has to think long-term as well... and there are a couple of cases in Greene/Tork that demonstrate how rushing guys doesn't always yield instant results or how it might not always be the best idea.

Relative to the sky high expectations placed upon Greene by this fanbase, its fair to say he didn't live up to them initially

Regarding Colt Keith, one issue I take with the "call 'em up" cries is that there are legitimate questions as to his fielding and ensuring he can play third at this level. And we just lived through this with JHen, who has recently been moved off third. This just seems to get pushed to the wayside whenever his name comes up, the hivemind just looks at the offensive statline and says "doesn't matter, nothing to learn at AAA, call em up"....

Our competition in the division at the moment, the Jerk Sox, lost two of three to the A's as well. So not exactly out of the realm of possibility either

Regarding the "call 'em up" feeding frenzy on social media, amplified no doubt by their ****ty play in this current series, Riley and Spencer (particularly Spencer) seem like good counterpoints to me... they were called up too early, and I think that has played a role in their struggles. Even aside from whether they are truly ready for the jump, I really worry that this feeding frenzy and expectation that the fanbase is putting onto Colt Keith or JH Malloy or Parker Meadows to be saviors is counterproductive.

But he didn't spend it on the right players, so that's as good as not spending in the eyes of many apparently

Why is Michael Fulmer being discussed in this conversation? He would be one of the worst members of this bullpen if he was still here. I get the "old friend" conversations about guys like Candy or Chafin, not Fulmer.

It seems so counterproductive as well... business often works off of references, and I'm not sure that kind of behavior causes people to refer a business to their friends.