mtutiger

I have posted multiple times about the Rangers over and what they did in the Rebuilding thread, so I'm not going to rehash it all again other than to say they have gotten significant contributions from their young core (Jung, Duran, Leody Tavares, etc.)... as significant as the investments were in free agents, they were to supplement the young core, not the other way around. And one imagines that was part of their sales pitch over the past couple of seasons. The Tigers, for their part, did go out and spend some money after 2021 when it was believed (or wishcasted anyway) they were close. But last season did them no favors... the young pitchers have either been injured and/or underperformed, Torkelson has underwhelmed, and Greene has had an up-and-down go of it when he has actually been on the field. And the guys they did sign, outside of Chafin, have, for a variety of reasons, underperformed their contracts. Simply put, the Rangers made a bet on their core and it has worked out. Outside of maybe 84Lives, I doubt there is a single person on this board who would bet on the Tigers young core as it exists today if it was their resources

It's a fair point, but particularly in Fulmer's case, he hasn't really pitched well enough to be missed. And he's been pretty bad in leverage situations with the Cubs

Perhaps at the macro level, but on a case by case basis, the factors that make individual free agents tick are much different. And simply put, I largely don't think fans think about that or care... I bring up Brandon Drury a lot because it ilicited a visceral reaction on this board when he signed with Anaheim last offseason. It later came out that he said that he, iirc, he accepted less money to stay on the west coast and closer to his family. We don't know if the Tigers were in on Drury or not and probably never will, but even if they were, probably the only way to obtain him is to offer a dramatic overpay and pay him way more than he is worth. Obviously as fans, it's not our money... but from a fiduciary perspective, among other reasons, I am not going to blame any organization for not desperately offering a dramatic overpay to a mid-level free agent. And if they did sign him to a dramatic overpay and he didn't perform to the level of his contract? I'm sure the fanbase would complain then too. Great example of that over in Kansas City in Jordan Lyles, who somehow got 2-$17M to put up a 7 ERA through the first half of this year

To be fair, it could also be a blip as well - even last year's pen, which was also very good on balance, had off games.

Michael Fulmer and Gregory Soto haven't been good this year, for what its worth

He was on the field for 120 games last year and it didn't work out. And if I were a betting man, it probably won't work out this year either. Ohtani is a generational talent, but this isn't the NBA... having a couple of stars without a decent enough supporting cast doesn't really work.

100%... not necessarily on this board but prominent voices in Tigers media keep trying to claim drama where there is none. And from AJ's perspective, he has looked engaged all throughout this season like someone who is invested as a stakeholder. And he has a front office background dating back to before he was in Houston... he understands where the org is at and undoubtedly he understands the long game better than the old school, Jimmy Smokes type of manager. I won't go as far as to say he'll be here many years from now. But if he's gone, it won't be via him quitting.... he isn't Bobby Ross or Jimmy Smokes ca. 1999.

I know you are joking, but still, Ohtani currently has Trout on the same team and has missed the playoffs with regularity since joining MLB.

I've said it before, but I still think this was part of the appeal for Harris when he evaluated this job. They are still a ways away from where the team needs to be. But this team isn't exactly competing with murderers row within the division either. And as dysfunctional as the Tigers have been, sharing a division with the White Sox and Royals in particular, I'm not even sure they are the worst org in the division currently. And even in terms of resources, as much people bitch about Chris I (and not entirely without reason), the ownership groups in Kansas City, Cleveland and Chicago (under that dinosaur Reinsdorf) are objectively more spendthrift than the Tigers ownership. It's such an underdiscussed point in evaluating where they stand, imo.

It's honestly a fair point... they did sign those free agents after 2021. But for some reasons, their activity during that offseason is usually discounted or ignored. Probably in large part because of a lack of results and preference for other free agents. But, honestly, seeing how each of the signings from 2021-2022 played out, save maybe Chafin, should be reason enough for skepticism about the idea that free agents alone can change the trajectory of the org. At their current state, at best, they are bandaid. And it will remain that way until, like Tampa or Cleveland or even the big spending Dodgers, they can demonstrate an ability to identify and develop talent from within

Not a chance... only useful players end up on the IL with this team lol

Haha, need to do this more often 🤪

If I had to guess, to the extent that he has evaluated, Harris views this org overall as not being where it needs to be to make that kind of investment. And it makes sense... I have seen a lot of complaints on this board, including from people who decry the lack of free agent signings, about how long it will take for this team to compete. I've seen 2026/2027 suggested at times (that's a bit pessimistic, at least in terms of the division they play in imo). And then same people will turn around and question why they didn't go out and sign Carlos Correa, who likely will regress to being a worse player by the time the org is actually positioned to compete in their view, particularly in light of the injury concerns Like, at a macro level, it just doesn't compute to me.

I wrote a longer post about the Rangers above, but last year's club that went 68-94 didn't have the contributions from quite a few homegrown players that it does right now. Their investment in free agency was a bet on their young core... it was risky, there were a lot of reasons to be skeptical, but there was a logic to it... And it is working for them right now. Mea culpa. Bringing it back to the Tigers, would anybody here bet in that kind of way on the Tigers young core? Especially after seeing how the first year and a half of Tork and Greene have gone? I would also add, living in the area and listening to Dallas sports radio frequently, prior to the 2022 offseason, Ranger fans directed the same level of ire toward Ray Davis as Tiger fans do toward Chris I... because they went through a few seasons without spending money as well. It stands to reason the investment happened because the org was in a position where the investment felt justified. And that requires real belief that you have players that are gonna come up and be worth building around... which, again, goes to the question of what the Tigers young core is at the moment. And as far as I can tell, very few are confident on that front.

The Detroit Tigers v. Zach Gallen. Good for my fantasy team, bad for the Detroit Tigers lol

As much as people in Detroit bitch about Chris I, and not entirely without reason, I don't think his reputation among the rest of baseball is nearly as poor as it is among Tigers fans. And objectively, I'm not even sure he's bottom five for owners; especially when you have guys like John Fisher, Arte Moreno, the Montforts, Jerry Reinsdorf, etc. in the club. As far as how the owner approaches this year, I'm guessing he's sympatico as well. And views AJ as a part of the braintrust, not as the holdover employee under evaluation

Its hard to know the minutiae of what specific changes they need to make, but at a high level, they need to be able to produce more talent internally that actually makes it to the major leagues and is useful. And that is the case regardless of how Chris Ilitch or Scott Harris use the checkbook going forward. Even the good teams that spend big money produce players internally. And this team has done a pretty poor job of it for a long time. People don't like hearing hard truths, but until that changes, the beatings are likely to continue.

I tend to agree with Chas here... there are always a lot of inferences of friction between the two of them (a certain cohost of "Days of Roar" seems to always suggest it), but really there is little evidence they arent simpatico. And I'm guessing both of them knew what this season would be like and that it was likely to be an evaluation season / clean slate after the departure of Al. The other thing is this fanbase, for better or worse, loves AJ. Making him the scapegoat for a 90 loss season, particularly when most expected a 90 losses or more, would seem to be really terrible PR.

The owner of Twitter apparently thinks that we have to hand it the Unabomber. Checks out

Colt Keith may be the real deal, but I do worry that the way certain folks in Tigers media and fandom discuss him is, perhaps similar to Torkelson and Greene, setting expectations way too high upon initial callup. Like, do we not trust the people in the org (some of whom are new) when they make evaluations of where players like Keith, Malloy, Meadows, etc. are when needs arise on the 26th man roster? In Keith's case, it's great that he has a .1000 OPS + in the Eastern League, but that doesn't necessarily mean he's big league ready yet either. And the last thing this org needs is another player called up before they are ready only to subsequently struggle and have the fanbase turn on them

On another note, how bout dem Mets and Padres?

Is the outrage all the Bankers Boxes of classified documents or the interior design choices? That carpet is hideous

Regarding the Rangers, given that Ratko brought them up as an example of building through free agency, the impact of their young core on their record today cannot be overstated. Josh Jung, Zeke Duran, Leody Tavares, Nathaniel Lowe, etc. And of course Adolis Garcia, who was a cast-off from another org. It's not to say the free agents haven't helped, they have despite injuries to some of their signings (De Grom has been a non-entity; they have been without Corey Seager much of the year), but simply put, they made a bet on their young core with the free agent signings and, to date, it has worked out. So, where's the analog to their young core with this Tigers team? Riley Greene started to come on before his injury, but Tork has been underwhelming. And past them what is there... Parker Meadows and Justyn Malloy are probably the next guys up, but idk how confident we are there. Colt Keith looks good, but despite the "call him up!" cries, is it really wise to bring him up at this point? They theoretically could do some stuff around the edges with free agency to pick up 5-10 more wins, sure, but at this point, until the they have a young core that is producing, it's seems to me that all of these debates are over the difference between 65-70 wins and 70-75 wins. I just don't see the way around that... they have to acquire more talent and better talent through the draft and other means.

Have you considered the possibility that they did, in fact, extend offers to players and they elected not to sign here? That's the thing... I'm not against them signing free agents, but realistically, there are no guarantees that free agents will sign if you extend them an offer... even if it's an overpay. And as far as I can tell, there's a ton of inference and little actual evidence one way or another about how they pursued last offseason. Put another way, the fact that they didn't sign many players is generally used as proof that they didn't actually try to sign anyone. I dont know that is the case.