Baseball Expansion discussion, 2025 edition

[Motor City Sonics]

8 hours ago, romad1 said:

Detroit and Pittsburgh?  Why is this a thing besides one hockey series?   Detroit and Chicago would be one I could enjoy.   Detroit vs. Toronto since we are good neighbors and have a baseball-related history.  

Besides that, maybe a Detroit vs. NL team we played in a World Series would work.  Detroit vs. St. Louis since we have a lot of post-season experience against each other (as with the Cubs). 

Can't do Detroit and Chicago because the two Chicago teams already have that thing.   St. Louis has the Royals.  Toronto is in the same league.   Have you not been paying attention the last decade, because MLB is scheduling the Tigers v Pirates every single year for a long time now.   

[romad1]

1 minute ago, Motor City Sonics said:

Can't do Detroit and Chicago because the two Chicago teams already have that thing.   St. Louis has the Royals.  Toronto is in the same league.   Have you not been paying attention the last decade, because MLB is scheduling the Tigers v Pirates every single year for a long time now.   

Yeah, its a dumb series. 

[Motor City Sonics]

16 minutes ago, romad1 said:

Yeah, its a dumb series. 

I agree, but there is no real rival for us in the NL and I will be glad to take a team that doesn't really try to win. 

[casimir]

4 team divisions suck.

I don’t mind interleaguing with Pittsburgh.

I’m still not convinced Las Vegas happens.

[Motor City Sonics]

1 hour ago, casimir said:

4 team divisions suck.

I don’t mind interleaguing with Pittsburgh.

I’m still not convinced Las Vegas happens.

Aren't they building the stadium?      

[Motor City Sonics]

Wow, this is as far as they've gotten?    A mound of dirt is a perfect metaphor for John Fisher/Rachel Phelps. 

 

I think it will happen now merely for face-saving purposes, but they just don't care about baseball in Vegas. 

 

[CMRivdogs]

3 minutes ago, Motor City Sonics said:

Aren't they building the stadium?      

There have been reports of dirt being moved around occasionally 

[CMRivdogs]

Just now, Motor City Sonics said:

Wow, this is as far as they've gotten?    A mound of dirt is a perfect metaphor for John Fisher/Rachel Phelps. 

 

I think it will happen now merely for face-saving purposes, but they just don't care about baseball in Vegas. 

 

Vegas has a minor league club just outside the city. An MLB Ballpark on the strip just doesn't make sense to me.

Maybe if they could find a way to play in the Sphere between Eagles dates.....

[romad1]

2 hours ago, Motor City Sonics said:

I agree, but there is no real rival for us in the NL and I will be glad to take a team that doesn't really try to win. 

Pittsburgh should play Cleveland and Detroit should/could play Cincinnati to be maximum I-75.  

[chasfh]

2 hours ago, casimir said:

4 team divisions suck.

I don’t mind interleaguing with Pittsburgh.

I’m still not convinced Las Vegas happens.

Not the Las Vegas A's, at least.

[chasfh]

1 hour ago, CMRivdogs said:

Vegas has a minor league club just outside the city. An MLB Ballpark on the strip just doesn't make sense to me.

Maybe if they could find a way to play in the Sphere between Eagles dates.....

I think they want to go on the Strip to draw tourists, and all the casinos are going to book packages with Baseball to get tourists to go. The capacity is going to be only 33,000, so it wouldn't take so much to fill it. Plus they'll have have a Jumbotron sportsbook board, so it'll be totally on-brand.

[Motor City Sonics]

11 hours ago, CMRivdogs said:

There have been reports of dirt being moved around occasionally 

Well, if it does fall through (and again, the need for face-saving will very likely stop that), the team would have to stay in the west,  so Salt Lake A's?    Portland A's (better ring to it).  Vancouver A's (or should that be Vancouver Ehs?)    They are NOT going to go back to Oakland - unless a local champion steps in and buys them becoming a folk hero there.    Sacramento's audition has been a disaster (kind of unfair as there are a  LOT of OAKLAND A's fans that would never give a dime to John Fisher).       To me the rankings for expansion are

1 - Nashville (it's a done deal, we're just waiting on the Rays to settle and CBA to get settled)

2 - Salt Lake City

3 - Portland

4 - Montreal

5 - Charlotte

6 - Vancouver

7 - San Jose

8 - San Antonio/Austin

 

But some of those places, I just don't know.  I think baseball's expansion possibilities are limited.   Places that would make sense like Northern New Jersey and Indianapolis would get blocked by existing teams, but those places make sense geographically, population-wise and income-wise.   

I just don't know that there are many places clamoring for 81 games a year over 5 months.      Romantically people would love to see Montreal be given another chance, but things were shaky there, at its best.   The best chances they had at winning it (1981 and 1994) got disrupted by player strikes,  the stadium is like something from another planet and the guy that owned them at the end was a con man.    Plus politically right now, the chubby behemoth is going to punish baseball for expanding in an enemy country like Canada and we know baseball is kissing the ring.   

Portland hasn't really proved to be a baseball hotspot even as a minor league team and speaking of politics.  Be ready for nightly protests and people disrupting things

Salt Lake has a ton of money, and if Colorado's support is any indication, baseball will do well there (because there isn't much else), but is there enough of an area population?  I mean, SLC Metro is smaller than Grand Rapids and GR has a lot of surrounding communities that would love to get behind a team represent their half of the state.  SLC has a few suburbs and then a whole bunch of nothing.   

Vancouver - well, there's the enemy country thing, but I don't know how hungry they are for baseball.  Huge Asian population there, but isn't more from China than Japan or Korea?     Vancouver makes more sense than Montreal, though

Charlotte - Geographically it makes sense.   No other team can really make a claim, ,except maybe the Braves.    There's plenty of money in Charlotte and plenty of regional population, but aren't they more into racing than baseball?  

San Antonio/Austin/Central Texas.   Plenty of population.  No state taxes would attract players, but the Rangers and Astros would do everything they could to stop it.  

San Jose.   I think it makes a ton of sense.   If the A's had moved to SJ they would have had a MUCH easier time of it.  Plenty of money, no shortage of people and it's a tech town and engineers are attracted to baseball.  I would much rather see the A's here, then in Vegas.      If The A's in Vegas thing falls apart, then San Jose makes the most sense.  And if FIsher wasn't the owner, then you'd win some Oakland A's fans back.   They did have a fanbase.  Fans showed up when they were good and we're a perfect example of that.   The Tigers attendance the last five years has been horrible, but when the team is good, we show up.   Gee, what a concept. 

[casimir]

15 hours ago, Motor City Sonics said:

 

Seems like a decent spot for a casino.

[casimir]

3 hours ago, Motor City Sonics said:

Well, if it does fall through (and again, the need for face-saving will very likely stop that), the team would have to stay in the west,  so Salt Lake A's?    Portland A's (better ring to it).  Vancouver A's (or should that be Vancouver Ehs?)    They are NOT going to go back to Oakland - unless a local champion steps in and buys them becoming a folk hero there.    Sacramento's audition has been a disaster (kind of unfair as there are a  LOT of OAKLAND A's fans that would never give a dime to John Fisher).       To me the rankings for expansion are

1 - Nashville (it's a done deal, we're just waiting on the Rays to settle and CBA to get settled)

2 - Salt Lake City

3 - Portland

4 - Montreal

5 - Charlotte

6 - Vancouver

7 - San Jose

8 - San Antonio/Austin

 

But some of those places, I just don't know.  I think baseball's expansion possibilities are limited.   Places that would make sense like Northern New Jersey and Indianapolis would get blocked by existing teams, but those places make sense geographically, population-wise and income-wise.   

I just don't know that there are many places clamoring for 81 games a year over 5 months.      Romantically people would love to see Montreal be given another chance, but things were shaky there, at its best.   The best chances they had at winning it (1981 and 1994) got disrupted by player strikes,  the stadium is like something from another planet and the guy that owned them at the end was a con man.    Plus politically right now, the chubby behemoth is going to punish baseball for expanding in an enemy country like Canada and we know baseball is kissing the ring.   

Portland hasn't really proved to be a baseball hotspot even as a minor league team and speaking of politics.  Be ready for nightly protests and people disrupting things

Salt Lake has a ton of money, and if Colorado's support is any indication, baseball will do well there (because there isn't much else), but is there enough of an area population?  I mean, SLC Metro is smaller than Grand Rapids and GR has a lot of surrounding communities that would love to get behind a team represent their half of the state.  SLC has a few suburbs and then a whole bunch of nothing.   

Vancouver - well, there's the enemy country thing, but I don't know how hungry they are for baseball.  Huge Asian population there, but isn't more from China than Japan or Korea?     Vancouver makes more sense than Montreal, though

Charlotte - Geographically it makes sense.   No other team can really make a claim, ,except maybe the Braves.    There's plenty of money in Charlotte and plenty of regional population, but aren't they more into racing than baseball?  

San Antonio/Austin/Central Texas.   Plenty of population.  No state taxes would attract players, but the Rangers and Astros would do everything they could to stop it.  

San Jose.   I think it makes a ton of sense.   If the A's had moved to SJ they would have had a MUCH easier time of it.  Plenty of money, no shortage of people and it's a tech town and engineers are attracted to baseball.  I would much rather see the A's here, then in Vegas.      If The A's in Vegas thing falls apart, then San Jose makes the most sense.  And if FIsher wasn't the owner, then you'd win some Oakland A's fans back.   They did have a fanbase.  Fans showed up when they were good and we're a perfect example of that.   The Tigers attendance the last five years has been horrible, but when the team is good, we show up.   Gee, what a concept. 

The evolution over time is interesting to me.  Not all that long ago, or maybe longer ago than I want to admit, Buffalo was a city that found its way on expansion lists.  I think they considered possible expansion when they built their current minor league ballyard, but I don't know if the engineering ideas were actually incorporated into the actual build.

I wonder how much Canada is in pay for an expansion team.  It seems like Toronto has a claim for most of Canada as their team.  So, does MLB stand to gain additional market (read that as revenue rather than geography) by setting another team north of the border?

[CMRivdogs]

1 hour ago, casimir said:

Seems like a decent spot for a casino.

Yep, it was at one time 😎

[CMRivdogs]

How about locating the park within the paddock area of the F1 Complex. It worked with a NASCAR track. How many races does Las Vegas host a year?

[chasfh]

1 hour ago, CMRivdogs said:

Yep, it was at one time 😎

And it will be again.

[casimir]

5 minutes ago, chasfh said:

And it will be again.

Well played, Mauer.

[casimir]

1 hour ago, CMRivdogs said:

Yep, it was at one time 😎

The two times I've been there we stayed at that intersection, but not at that former structure.  Can't tell you which ones, because you know, Vegas and all.

[Tiger337]

21 hours ago, Motor City Sonics said:

I agree, but there is no real rival for us in the NL and I will be glad to take a team that doesn't really try to win. 

Why do they even need the rivalry thing?  They play every team every year now anyway.  

[casimir]

9 minutes ago, Tiger337 said:

Why do they even need the rivalry thing?  They play every team every year now anyway.  

Because we gotta have New York vs New York, and Chicago vs Chicago, and Los Angeles vs Los Angeles, and Tampa vs Miami.  All natural long standing bitter rivalries that just have to happen.

Which is why once I become emperor of the world, my first order of business, well.... maybe second, is geographical realignment of MLB.

[CMRivdogs]

13 minutes ago, casimir said:

The two times I've been there we stayed at that intersection, but not at that former structure.  Can't tell you which ones, because you know, Vegas and all.

I've been there all of three, four times. Mostly hanging out while spouse was at conventions. The casino at the proposed MLB stadium site was the Tropicana. 
We happened to ride past it on a trip last year. Vacation Club special, helicopter ride to Grand Canyon. Our "den mother" and other locals commented on the site and location. 
Our hotel was up from the race track, next to the driving range

[casimir]

1 minute ago, CMRivdogs said:

I've been there all of three, four times. Mostly hanging out while spouse was at conventions. The casino at the proposed MLB stadium site was the Tropicana. 
We happened to ride past it on a trip last year. Vacation Club special, helicopter ride to Grand Canyon. Our "den mother" and other locals commented on the site and location. 
Our hotel was up from the race track, next to the driving range

I know we wandered on that corner, but I'm not sure we ever went into the Tropicana.

Hold on.  Shouldn't the Tampa Bay Rays relocate from Tropicana Field to the Corner Formally Known as Tropicana?  Then shove the Athletics into Nashville, and we're all set with teams and stadiums. 

[chasfh]

I have been wondering lately whether Baseball makes more money in franchise fees if they can offer up Las Vegas and Nashville to potential Big Club members, versus offering up, for example, Salt Lake and Charlotte, or Portland and Montreal? If so, would it be more in their interests to block Fisher from moving to Vegas and more or less force him to settle in, I don't know, Sacramento? Or maybe even virginal Salt Lake? If Baseball tried that, though, Fisher might try to sue them, which might then put the antitrust exemption on notice.

[Motor City Sonics]

4 hours ago, chasfh said:

I have been wondering lately whether Baseball makes more money in franchise fees if they can offer up Las Vegas and Nashville to potential Big Club members, versus offering up, for example, Salt Lake and Charlotte, or Portland and Montreal? If so, would it be more in their interests to block Fisher from moving to Vegas and more or less force him to settle in, I don't know, Sacramento? Or maybe even virginal Salt Lake? If Baseball tried that, though, Fisher might try to sue them, which might then put the antitrust exemption on notice.

Well, I feel like Las Vegas has kind of peaked, hasn't it?    I know the population exploded the last 30 years, but isn't that tide turning or about to turn?   Especially with sports gambling being league in so many states now (and more are coming). 

I hate sports gambling, even though I took about $600 from Bet MGM a couple years ago on hockey bets  (I never bet more than $10 and always picked an OVER on a 5.5 goal total and won at least 2/3rds of the time,  then 5.5's started disappearing). 

Does Vegas have that juice it once had?   And adding an A's game to a tourism package - does that even move the needle?   Sure when they play Ohtani or Aaron Judge, but what about most of the games.   Most regular people couldn't name a single A's player from the past 5 years if you put a gun to their head.   Do they think FIsher is suddenly going to try to sign a bunch of superstars?   I don't think Casino owners are giving him money to sign players to have fans spend nights away from their Casinos.      That Sphere thing, though really cool, has been a massive money-loser.    You have to have a massive artist play there and there aren't that many of those.   

The A's would be way better off playing in front of a bunch of tech nerds in San Jose.   

the hockey team works because their first year they went to the Stanley Cup Final - so they set themselves up for the next few years and then won it again, so it's stayed hot.  Plus it's two games a week in the winter.   

Raiders do well because they have a national following and only 8 or 9 home games a year - and on a weekend mostly

I think the NBA would do very well in Vegas because there is only 41 teams and players would probably love to play there.   

But baseball?   81 games a year?   Team that hasn't been good in 20 years and hasn't had a bankable star in that whole time?   Not seeing it.   Not unless they book big concerts for right after the game (which they might try).  

Nashville - I get.  Not big, but little competition.    Charlotte is kind of like that too.    

Who knows what team payrolls are even going to look like after the 2027 strike. .