Red Wings December 2025 Game Threads

[slothfacekilla]

This Kasper season has honestly been fascinating.  He definitely has some games where he isn't good positioning-wise or lacks effort, but I honestly feel like the "eye test" says he's playing fairly well overall just very unlucky.  I randomly pulled up moneypuck to check an expected goal model, and he's 6th on the team just ahead of Raymond so these made up stats seem to support it as well (DeBrincat, Finnie, Larkin, Copp(!!), JVR ahead of Kasper).  I expected him to snap out of his funk by now though.  We'll see if he gets better results in the new year.

[1984Echoes]

1 hour ago, buddha said:

... it just shows what they think of wallinder and tuomisto that neither of them are getting a sniff even with hamonic being one of the worst defensemen in the nhl.  asp has been bad on defense but he's still here, but wallinder and tuomisto cant get a call up.

I don't think that is any more telling than MBN or Cossa not getting called up.

They (the Wings or, probably more specifically, Cleary and Stevie Y) simply like "cooking" or "seasoning" the young guys until they are basically "overdone" or "overripe", or at least it seems that way to me. They want these kids to go through championship runs with the Griffins for the "experience"... fine. They want kids to keep working on eliminating as many warts as is possible down in GR... OK, fine.

But I've been watching a lot of Griffins hockey recently (I recently found an AHL "channel" on my streaming....)

Cossa, Wallinder and Tuomisto all look great. Fantastic. Now... this is AHL so I don't know what that means exactly in the translation to the NHL (whenever that day comes)... And obviously the Wings are "seasoning" them, still, in the AHL... but when I watched them, they each were able to use their size to control the puck. To block the opponent from "stealing" control, through reach (Wall & Tuom), size (Wall & Tuom) or simply "blocking out the sun" and providing no easy access for an opposing goal (Cossa). I saw excellent defense, and some offensive skill from both of the two D with zone clears, outlet passes, and even a couple of goals scored. They have the size to hold their own against forechecking and AHL size... obviously NHL size and toughness is another level altogether.

But I'm not a scout, so what do I know?

My guess though, is that these two are viable NHL defensemen, even if we don't know where they end up in the NHL (2nd pair, 3rd pair, 7th/8th D'men?) until they actually show what they can, or cannot do, at the NHL level. And we might not even see that until 2026-27. Maybe Tuomisto's skating or toughness isn't NHL good enough to be anything more than 7th D, or Wallinder's, same.

But I no longer doubt them.

I've seen enough to believe they are viable options. Somewhere. On the Wings. And I believe them to be bigger, faster, and stronger than Chiarot-ASP and they could easily be the Wings 2nd pair... right now... even with a lot of rookie/young kid warts or mistakes in the NHL. But that's just me.

And...

Even if Stevie Y prefers to keep "seasoning" them all 2025-26 AHL season long.

[gehringer_2]

1 hour ago, buddha said:

asp has been bad on defense but he's still here, but wallinder and tuomisto cant get a call up.

Right now the problem with ASP is the fit. He has some NHL level talent but his skill set isn't what the Wings currently need the most from a Dman. It's the weakest part of his game the Wings are most in need of.

[buddha]

12 minutes ago, 1984Echoes said:

I don't think that is any more telling than MBN or Cossa not getting called up.

They (the Wings or, probably more specifically, Cleary and Stevie Y) simply like "cooking" or "seasoning" the young guys until they are basically "overdone" or "overripe", or at least it seems that way to me. They want these kids to go through championship runs with the Griffins for the "experience"... fine. They want kids to keep working on eliminating as many warts as is possible down in GR... OK, fine.

But I've been watching a lot of Griffins hockey recently (I recently found an AHL "channel" on my streaming....)

Cossa, Wallinder and Tuomisto all look great. Fantastic. Now... this is AHL so I don't know what that means exactly in the translation to the NHL (whenever that day comes)... And obviously the Wings are "seasoning" them, still, in the AHL... but when I watched them, they each were able to use their size to control the puck. To block the opponent from "stealing" control, through reach (Wall & Tuom), size (Wall & Tuom) or simply "blocking out the sun" and providing no easy access for an opposing goal (Cossa). I saw excellent defense, and some offensive skill from both of the two D with zone clears, outlet passes, and even a couple of goals scored. They have the size to hold their own against forechecking and AHL size... obviously NHL size and toughness is another level altogether.

But I'm not a scout, so what do I know?

My guess though, is that these two are viable NHL defensemen, even if we don't know where they end up in the NHL (2nd pair, 3rd pair, 7th/8th D'men?) until they actually show what they can, or cannot do, at the NHL level. And we might not even see that until 2026-27. Maybe Tuomisto's skating or toughness isn't NHL good enough to be anything more than 7th D, or Wallinder's, same.

But I no longer doubt them.

I've seen enough to believe they are viable options. Somewhere. On the Wings. And I believe them to be bigger, faster, and stronger than Chiarot-ASP and they could easily be the Wings 2nd pair... right now... even with a lot of rookie/young kid warts or mistakes in the NHL. But that's just me.

And...

Even if Stevie Y prefers to keep "seasoning" them all 2025-26 AHL season long.

they called up kasper well before he was "overripe", and he got hurt in his first game.  seider and raymond were both up immediately.  mbn started the season in detroit without any time in the ahl.  asp is not nhl ready and he's been here all season, after spending very little time in the ahl.

even cossa was called up last year.  he played one game and let in 2 goals on 14 shots.  and then bombed in the ahl playoffs.

the "seasoning" argument comes down to edvinsson, who was in the ahl probably after he was ready.  other than that, i dont see anyone.

wallinder and tuomisto did **** all in the preseason.  they had an opportunity and didnt take it.  unlike raymond years ago, and then kasper last year.

lombardi and buium have looked better in preseason than either of those two.

that alone doesnt mean wallinder and tuomisto will never make the nhl, heck even dennis cholowski is still in the nhl.  some players take longer to develop and maybe wallinder and tuomisto are those types of players, but i'm not buying the argument that theyre ready and "the man" is just keeping them down.

[1984Echoes]

The "tell" will be...

If, and what, they actually do when (if) they hit NHL regular season ice.

[gehringer_2]

11 minutes ago, buddha said:

the "seasoning" argument comes down to edvinsson, who was in the ahl probably after he was ready.  other than that, i dont see anyone.

 

Maybe a little with Soderblom - they gave him an audition and then we didn't see him again for a season and a half. But in his case they still are a long way from sold even now. I thought they should have used him last night given the way the Jets were tossing Wings around but whatever.

[buddha]

2 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

Maybe a little with Soderblom - they gave him an audition and then we didn't see him again for a season and a half. But in his case they still are a long way from sold even now. I thought they should have used him last night given the way the Jets were tossing Wings around but whatever.

soderblom has been an average 4th line player at best.  for where he was picked in the draft, that's a win.  but he's a yo-yo guy in the lineup.  you dont notice him most nights.  he's rasmussen-lite (because he doesnt kill penalties) without the long term contract and draft position pedigree.

[slothfacekilla]

One thing I'll say about Wallinder is that he was always a project and the Wings walked Johansson to his waivers eligibility before playing him in the NHL and now he's a regular (for better or worse).  Maybe Wallinder comes in and surprises us next season.

[buddha]

9 minutes ago, slothfacekilla said:

One thing I'll say about Wallinder is that he was always a project and the Wings walked Johansson to his waivers eligibility before playing him in the NHL and now he's a regular (for better or worse).  Maybe Wallinder comes in and surprises us next season.

i'm more interested in anton johansson than albert or wallinder or tuomisto.

[slothfacekilla]

Just now, buddha said:

i'm more interested in anton johansson than albert or wallinder or tuomisto.

oh 100%, he's a much better prospect at this point

[buddha]

20 minutes ago, slothfacekilla said:

One thing I'll say about Wallinder is that he was always a project and the Wings walked Johansson to his waivers eligibility before playing him in the NHL and now he's a regular (for better or worse).  Maybe Wallinder comes in and surprises us next season.

wallinder was a big time project.  he was a "reach" when they drafted him (but so was seider...).  he was big and talented but unrefined and seen as soft.  he's still big and talented and still seen as soft.  i'm not sure that plays in the nhl.

like you note, they may wait until after this year and bring him up like they did with johannson.  but will they have room?  

say they trade for faulk.  that gives them seider-ed, faulk-johannson, asp-chairot for this year.  i know chairot is up at the end of this year, but i can definitely see them giving him an extension over johannson/wallinder/tuomisto.  chairot is still a viable 3rd pair dman who can play 2pair in a pinch and not get caved in.  johannson just isnt cutting it, imo.  too small and cant move the puck.

just to bring this roundabout post full circle, i could see then bring up wallinder next year and let johannson go.  wallinder at least has nhl size.

[lordstanley]

I hate to say it, but 3G 3A for 6pts in 41 games for a #8 overall pick in the 4th season after his draft is getting dangerously close to Bust. Doesn't mean he can't have some type of NHL career, but hell, Zadina and Rasmussen were producing as much by then.

[buddha]

10 minutes ago, lordstanley said:

I hate to say it, but 3G 3A for 6pts in 41 games for a #8 overall pick in the 4th season after his draft is getting dangerously close to Bust. Doesn't mean he can't have some type of NHL career, but hell, Zadina and Rasmussen were producing as much by then.

if it werent for his time on the first line last year, i'd already be saying he is a bust.  but he was so complimentary to larkin-raymond and so successful (even with elevated shooting %), i think he is just having a rough go of it this year and not in zadina territory.

i know everyone loves finnie, but kasper was better last year in his line one time, and their initial insistance that kasper be 2C held them back on line one (marginally) AND line 2 by forcing copp out of the role he was so good at last year before his injury.  i didnt think it was a good idea at the time and ive been proven right.

they may need to just suck it up and admit that kasper is better on the wing.

[buddha]

as long as were talking disappointing, can we talk about nate danielson?  

is anyone a bit disappointed in him?  i see solid defense and good responsibility, the ability to grow into his body, and a good two-way checking center.

i do not see 1C.

that shouldnt be disappointing, but i was hoping to see more offensive spark.  you can see the occasional glash with a great pass here and there, but not a ton of play driving or great offensive tools.  a lot of "good."