Tigers Ownership

[UCFKNIGHT]

The Angels just fired Joe Maddon during a 12 game loosing streak and yet, Al Avila and AJ Hinch still have their jobs. Frustrating times in Detroit. Avila and Hinch are laughing all the way to the bank. It’s truly disgusting.

[Useful Idiot]

Strangely, I don't think either Avila or Hinch are the true culprit. As bad as it all seems, I believe that Avila is just doing the job he's been asked to do.  Little itch is, IMO, the true villain here.  Playing monopoly with his New Markets tax credits  has seized his attention in an unhealthy way for Detroit sports fans

[gehringer_2]

22 minutes ago, Useful Idiot said:

Strangely, I don't think either Avila or Hinch are the true culprit. As bad as it all seems, I believe that Avila is just doing the job he's been asked to do.  Little itch is, IMO, the true villain here.  Playing monopoly with his New Markets tax credits  has seized his attention in an unhealthy way for Detroit sports fans

Lee made a post in one of the threads about Fedder being more important than Hinch and it got me thinking about the whole pitching/hitting dichotomy with the Tigers org. I think there is one conclusion - which is that Avila is a 'process' guy and today pitching is something which is definable by 'process'. The tech has allowed teams to understand spin, release, movement. And the Tigers (as they should) have gone all in. They seem to know how to put pitchers into the pitches they should be throwing and how to optimize them throwing those pitches and they appear to have a good system for evaluation of the quality of arms (TJs among them not withstanding). I don't think it's arguable that it been nothing short of phenomenal the way the system has been able to come with young pitchers and BP arms to keep this team even treading water in the face of catastrophic pitching staff injuries and a once in a lifetime offensive collapse. Al has put processes into place which have resulting an org with strong pitching and has hired a manager in Hinch who managers his staff well. That part has been a success.

But on the other side, hitting is whole different ball game. There are many aspects you can coach a hitter for, being short to the ball, weight transfer, swing path, and all of that can help a hitter put the bat where he wants to when he wants to, which is great. However 99% of hitting is knowing the point you want to get the bat to, IOW, knowing where the ball is going to be, and there isn't a whole lot anyone has ever figured out to help a hitter do that. And in the absence of any clear system for developing that, like there is in pitching, the Tiger org doesn't seem to have any clear ideas about how to make a good hitter or how to find them, other than that Al likes guys who don't K a lot. Well who doesn't?

I like Al's organization abilities, but he needs to find a hitting 'guru' for the system that can show him how to bring some of what has been accomplished on the pitching side to the hitting side.

Edited June 13, 2022 by gehringer_2

[tiger2022]

It's only fair to give Avila credit for the pitching if he is going to take the blame for the offense.  

[mtutiger]

51 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

Lee made a post in one of the threads about Fedder being more important than Hinch and it got me thinking about the whole pitching/hitting dichotomy with the Tigers org. I think there is one conclusion - which is that Avila is a 'process' guy and today pitching is something which is definable by 'process'. The tech has allowed teams to understand spin, release, movement. And the Tigers (as they should) have gone all in. They seem to know how to put pitchers into the pitches they should be throwing and how to optimize them throwing those pitches and they appear to have a good system for evaluation of the quality of arms (TJs among them not withstanding). I don't think it's arguable that it been nothing short of phenomenal the way the system has been able to come with young pitchers and BP arms to keep this team even treading water in the face of catastrophic pitching staff injuries and a once in a lifetime offensive collapse. Al has put processes into place which have resulting an org with strong pitching and has hired a manager in Hinch who managers his staff well. That part has been a success.

But on the other side, hitting is whole different ball game. There are many aspects you can coach a hitter for, being short to the ball, weight transfer, swing path, and all of that can help a hitter put the bat where he wants to when he wants to, which is great. However 99% of hitting is knowing the point you want to get the bat to, IOW, knowing where the ball is going to be, and there isn't a whole lot anyone has ever figured out to help a hitter do that. And in the absence of any clear system for developing that, like there is in pitching, the Tiger org doesn't seem to have any clear ideas about how to make a good hitter or how to find them, other than that Al likes guys who don't K a lot. Well who doesn't?

I like Al's organization abilities, but he needs to find a hitting 'guru' for the system that can show him how to bring some of what has been accomplished on the pitching side to the hitting side.

Keep bringing it up, but they have done a lot of reorganizing over the past 12 months in minor league development, so one would hope that could help produce more results. Who knows, maybe that helps account for some of the improvement for guys like Wenceel Perez or (to a lesser extent) Parker Meadows. 

But in general, I don't blame people for being pissed off at Al. I do think the overall explanation for their start needs to account for guys with track records not performing to potential, but the reality is that they would be relying less on guys from the outside had they developed more in house as opposed to relying on the Grossmans or Schoops of the world and hoping that they didn't regress.