Preseason Discussion

[Betrayer]

3 minutes ago, Deleterious said:

Teams average 110 points per game.  The offense is going to score now and then.

And when you were 24th in defensive rating, 26th in defensive rebound percentage, and 23rd in opponent points in the paint the offense is going score a lot more than "now and then", and do it a lot more efficiently because a layup is still the easiest shot in basketball. Other coaches might consider a different coverage scheme that does a better job of protecting against those shots, or the easily created mismatches that cause them.

[Deleterious]

46 minutes ago, Betrayer said:

And when you were 24th in defensive rating, 26th in defensive rebound percentage, and 23rd in opponent points in the paint the offense is going score a lot more than "now and then", and do it a lot more efficiently because a layup is still the easiest shot in basketball. Other coaches might consider a different coverage scheme that does a better job of protecting against those shots, or the easily created mismatches that cause them.

But switching is the best scheme against modern offenses.  Which is why all 30 teams do it.

The Pistons simply don't have the talent to play good defense no matter which scheme they run.

Edited October 18, 2022 by Deleterious

[Betrayer]

I think your last statement is the key to the misunderstanding we're having. What the Pistons are doing is not what other teams do.

Soft switching 1-5 is doing it every time, on every play, for every position, even before it's necessary. The Pistons don't even wait for the screen to force the switch. It's almost like a zone switch. It's predictable, really bad for rebounding, gives up layups, and gives your opponent every mismatch they want, whenever they want it.

Others teams switch when necessary, in certain matchups, against certain players (to limit the three ball), or only switch certain positions. Some teams rarely switch and prefer to run drop coverage or hedging. Certainly there are switch heavy teams such as Miami and Boston, but even they aren't doing what we're doing even though they might actually have the personnel to pull it off.

I get that we don't have the defensive talent, but the coach doesn't have to pour gasoline on the fire either.

Edited October 18, 2022 by Betrayer

[Deleterious]

I think we both know what it is.  We just seem to disagree on how often it is used.

Utah ran drop coverage with Gobert.  We sit here and laugh at them every year in the playoffs when it blows up in their faces.

Hedging/doubling/blitzing just doesn't work in todays game if the other team is competent.   Even if Casey wanted to run that style of defense they don't have the players for it.  We all say how slow and unathletic the Pistons are.  Well in that defense you are constantly rotating and that requires speed and athleticism.  It would be career suicide for a coach to implement that type of defense with this roster.

Anyway, his offense is bad enough to fire him.  So like I said, I wont get upset if they do get rid of him.

[boogiebunz]

I think nearly every team in the league needs to switch pretty much 1-5, even when they don’t have the right personnel to do it because that’s how the game has evolved offensively. Most good teams have bigs that can shoot and take players off the dribble one-on-one. And most really good teams have a guy or two who is a match-up problem regardless of what kind of defense you play on him.

Switching 1-5 even if your team is unathletic is primarily to cover the three point line at every position. Because that’s where the game has gone. You can’t leave any competent three point shooter wide open because nowadays even just a “good” shooter will likely make a wide open look at three around 50% of the time. Might as well switch and give up the easy two on a mismatch switch or a blow by drive than a wide open three because at least you save one point.

Now you don’t switch when you defend a team with only a couple good shooters and a couple guys who you don’t fear at all shooting. And that’s why it’s so glaring how wide open a guy like Stewart is left alone. And that allows a very tilted team defense to help on other scoring threats.

I don’t mind switching with this team, even though several guys are not athletic enough for it to be really effective because I don’t think any other set defense is that much better with unathletic players regardless anyway, not even zone. Good teams will find a way to get good looks against a zone as well. And it also emphasizes how this team could benefit from a better balance of athleticism, especially in the starting unit. I like Stewart. And Saddiq has been pretty solid his first two years. But I view neither as long term starters on this team for precisely the lack of athleticism argument. Need a bigger, longer PF/C who can shoot playing next to Duren. And need a bouncy speedster who can guard the best big wings in the league at the 3. Switching everything and watching how poor the defense is because of it emphasizes how this team could use upgrades on the wing and upfront.

Edited October 18, 2022 by boogiebunz

[buddha]

livers is hurt again?

he missed the end of his michigan career, most of his rookie season, and now he's hurt again.

having hip issues is not a good sign.

[Betrayer]

@boogiebunz Regardless of where the game has gone, the fact is that no other team soft switches 1-5 like we do. Did you watch opening night last night? 4 teams and none of them employ the scheme we employ. They all used a combination of switching, dropping, hedging, and scramming, and even some zone. Like I've said previously, you need to be able to switch, but even heavy switching teams don't do it all the time and they certainly don't soft switch all the time (switching before it's even necessary to do so). 

It's not just me saying this. There's a reason this scheme is catching so much heat in the media and on podcasts. There's a reason Casey was directly asked about this by the reporters during the preseason. And there's a reason JEIII had to write a fluff piece trying to give Casey's side of the story. It's not because this is what everyone else is doing and we're just catching up. It's because nobody else is soft switching 1-5 because nobody in their right mind would.

[boogiebunz]

Fair enough. 

I wasn't talking specifically about your idea of "soft" switching or specifically Casey's schemes. Just switching in general. And I certainly don't advocate for switching everything being the only defensive strategy. Defense changes with not just personnel but based on opponent strengths and weaknesses, how each game is going. Against a shooter like Steph, you'll hedge and maybe blitz or trap him off the PNR. With Giannis you'll play drop coverage every time and collapse the defense in the paint. 

Everything defensively is fluid game to game. But in general, on most nights against most teams, I switch everything. You still have to play up after the switch. But I switch and guard the three point line unless or until the other team dictates that I don't.