NYLion

That's the key right there, he's getting to whichever spot on the floor he wants and creating good looks for himself and his teammates. This is why I said after last game that I'm not concerned about his shooting statline. He's doing a lot of good stuff, it's only a matter of time until the shots start falling with more regularity.

Surprisingly too. Who would have thought that the Jags would beat the Bills, Giants beat the Raiders with all their injuries, Arizona would crush the Niners without Murray, Hopkins etc. and that the Titans would crush the Rams without Henry. In any event, the Rams record was really propped up by wins against the Bears, Seahawks (without Wilson a lot of the game), Colts, Giants, Lions and Texans. They did beat Tampa but that was a really soft 7-1. They're 1-2 against legit teams and got pumped in the 2 losses. They're a good team but we really don't know how good they are.

Murray was a #1 pick, much different situation.

They just drafted Wilson at #2. I can't imagine in any scenario even if White plays well the rest of the season that they move on from Wilson. Even if White plays well the rest of the season, like Minshew did in his 1st season, you offer a 6th at most. I wouldn't mind taking a flier on a guy like that if he lights it up the rest of the season but a 3rd is waaaaay too steep.

Gardner Minshew who has a much longer track record of success was traded for a 6th and you want to trade 3rd for this guy because he had one nice game? Also, why are the Jets trading Wilson again?

I guess I'm a "slappy" because Cade looks good and I'm not concerned in the least about his shot not falling because that's just a matter of him getting the timing down and getting that ankle back to 100% to get proper lift. If you watch him play, you can see a lot of good stuff in his game. Once the shots start falling, and they will, he's going to be really good. 1-20 from three is awful no doubt but he's not even close on a lot of them which leads me to believe that his ankle is still not 100% or he still doesn't trust it fully yet so I wouldn't worry too much about it long term. We also need to keep in mind that he didn't even practice with the team fully at any point and played no preseason so this is his preseason essentially.

I certainly do see a problem with the talent level of the team but I'm talking about who could be affected by what happens this season going forward. I expect all the guys I listed to be on the team in the near future at the very least, teams need depth players too to succeed. I just don't think 0-17 is good for development, 2-15 is no picnic either but it would be nice for them to get at least a little taste of winning and the majority of this current roster is young, developing players. That's all I'm really saying.

Agree to disagree then. You think 0-17 is fine for development, I don't. Kind of sad when a fanbase has this defeatist attitude but it is what it is. BTW, I'm not saying that it's absolutely necessary to win a few games but nobody, and I repeat, nobody wants the embarrassment of finishing 0-17. You might think winning a few means nothing but I'd wager a guess that it's important to a lot of the players, coaches and a good deal of fans too. Young players that should be here for a few years at least? Swift, Hockenson, Sewell, Jackson, St. Brown, McNeil, Onwuzurike, Walker, Barnes, J. Okwara etc. so, there you go.

That lines up with my thoughts. One thing though, they have to get a QB if those 2023-2024 expectations are to be met. I know he went to a SB once upon a time but this broken version of Goff going on 3 seasons now ain't the guy. In any event, there are no 4-5 year rebuilds in the NFL like you see in other sports, careers are too short, too much roster turnover from year to year. In the case of a full rebuild, if you're not showing significant improvement in Year 2 and are not, at the very least, making a serious wild card run in Year 3, you're not the right people for the job.

Nobody wants to go 0-17. Winning a few would surely boost morale and you may not want to believe it but getting a taste of winning, even if it's just a win or two, is important for young players. Laugh at it all you want but going 0-17 especially if they're getting blown out half the time isn't going to be good for anybody. Also, if the timeline is 2024 to start being competitive then Brad and Dan are the wrong people for the job.

It's a fair take but I don't think they can afford to let this season go into the abyss and I think it's important, not necessary but important to win a few games just for their psyche going into the offseason because a lot of the team is made up of young players that will be here beyond this season.

The offense had the most flow it had all season when Cade was in last game. He bricked some shots but his playmaking presence (and defending) was evident in his short stint. Even Cade at 50% or whatever he was to start made a clear difference not only with the offensive flow but with pace. With that said, this appears to be CoJo and Olynyk's team with Casey running things at least for now so these games are unwatchable even though Olynyk is actually a pretty fun player to watch on the offensive end. I just don't care about these guys for a team that isn't winning anything while they're here.

No, it's not meaningless. You don't want games like these to pile up to close the season. This season is about building a foundation, building a culture. All your building is a losing culture if you're not only losing, but not competing. It's not necessarily about wins/losses although 0-17 should never EVER be acceptable or meeting an expectation, it's about showing incremental improvements as the season wears on and laying a foundation going into next season and beyond. If these non competitive losses continue, this season was a compete loss. The coaches/players etc. need to make sure this season means SOMETHING. It's a lot of young players on this roster, they need to learn how to compete regularly and I'm seeing regression in their game. Swift, for example, looked like he wasn't even trying this week. Not good signs.

They are a fan of winning though.

O...K? What's your point? You're ok with what we've seen the last two home games? Obviously you didn't read my post when I said "I don't think Campbell should be fired" so.... anyway.

Sorry but 0-8 is unacceptable no matter what. I was on board with the competitive losses but getting blown out of the water in two straight home games especially when there was some "give up" in the players is completely unacceptable. I expected struggles, I expected a few blowouts, but I did not expect to see a team that is worse in Game 8 than they were in Game 1. I'm not even going to touch on the coaching errors in the close losses. As I said before, all I wanted to see was some progression and if anything, the team is regressing and it appears that the coaches' message is growing a little stale. I get that there's a lack of talent, and injuries, but you still need to see compete every week (when you're trying to build a foundation) and I haven't seen it as of late. Of course you don't fire Campbell anytime soon but I don't see why it's so taboo for him to be questioned.

I had an open mind going into the season knowing that it would be painful but I also expected progression throughout the season. I know that key injuries have made this a tougher task but I'm seeing a team that's regressing and some players that are already tuning out the coach. I was never sure that Campbell was the right guy and never cared much for all the "rah rah" stuff at this early pressers but I will say that I'm becoming less and less sure of him being anything more than a motivator as the weeks go on. It's not only a lack of talent issue, it just has the look of a poorly coached team. I'm not saying he should be fired or anything like that but man does this guy look out of his element at times.

Whoever makes the Watson trade is likely sending a high pedigree young QB the other way and, lets be honest, it appears to be Miami if it does happen (apparently Carolina dropped out) so if Houston takes Tua as a centerpiece, why would they draft another QB? If no Watson trade is made then, yeah, it will flood the QB market even more for the draft.

I doubt Miami, Houston, Indy or Carolina especially if the Watson trade to Miami happens. Indy and Carolina burned some prime assets to acquire their guys and Wentz is playing well for Indy so I doubt either will be in a market for a 1st round QB but who knows I guess. New Orleans yeah, I forgot about them but it also depends on how Winston does since they're contending team right now. Pittsburgh for sure. We'll see. Not many projections have more than 2 QBs going in the top 20 but of course that can change. If there is a run on QBs, oh well move on.

They could still probably get a shot at one of them in the late 1st. This is a unique season in which there are any elite level QBs that are locks to go in the top 10 and there aren't many QB needy teams after so many were taken last draft. Who is even a big threat to take a QB before the Rams pick? Washington, Denver and Atlanta? And I doubt that all 3 take a QB so I think there's a real shot at one of those guys with the Rams pick, preferably one of Willis or Corral.

Taking a QB in the mid to late rounds is pretty much a wasted pick. The hit rate on QBs that late is less than most other positions partly because they rarely get a chance to play. Either take a QB in the 1st or don't take one at all.

Can't disagree with any of that and I think it's better in the long run if they get another top 5 pick in this draft because the talent base, while much improved the last 2 years, still needs another big addition (preferably a more athletic player) to really think about competing next season and beyond.

They got a 1st back in the Kennard trade which turned into Bey. No Kennard trade, No Bey. Who gives a hoot about the 2nds, they drafted a core player with the return. Kennard wasn't an "asset", he was an oft injured player who was about to get paid big bucks. The impending contract is what made him a negative asset but looking at the picks in isolation, would you rather have the four 2nds or Bey? I know who I'd pick. Not a big fan of the Jordan deal but it's really inconsequential in the grand scheme. It was basically designed to recoup some 2nds. I'm not sure we complete agree though. You seem to think Weaver is doing a bad job (unless I'm misinterpreting your position) and while I'm far from crowning him at this point, I'm in wait and see mode because that's all you can do in a rebuild. On the surface, there's been some good (we disagree on Bey being a good thing) and bad with him but until we see what this young core is made of, it's an incomplete right now.

So let me try to understand. Weaver is an idiot for giving away garbage 2nds but is also an idiot for taking on garbage 2nds. They got Bey from the Kennard trade and in the process, didn't overpay Kennard. The 2nds are inconsequential. Drafted a top 10 level talent who can be a core player going forward is much better than holding on to some 2nd round picks so I don't see why this trade is getting criticized. The Plumlee trade was odd but he thought Olynyk would be an upgrade so time will tell on that front. I don't know, I think you're making a big deal of trades that will have little bearing on their future. I don't like the stretches, not a fan of the dead money but a lot of it is during a time when they aren't competing anyway and they still have enough cap space to make moves so it's not crippling. My biggest issue with Weaver thus far is not weaponizing the cap space to add 1sts by taking on bad contracts like what OKC did with Favors. He had the right idea with the Jordan trade but pretty lackluster execution by only getting deep in the future 2nds.

Pickett has baby hands, like a good deal smaller than Goff's hands which are below average as is, so I'd be hesitant with him. Granted, Burrow also has small hands but he's an exception.