ICroupier

Was the "part" the hitters, pitchers and coaches?

Lordy, we wouldn't want to mess with the vibe of a team that completely **** the bed in a historic meltdown.

This is my thinking, as well. My hope is that Flaherty opts out, but I just don't see it happening, as I think he really likes it in Detroit. I'm fine with Melton as the #5, but only if we acquire a legit #2. A legit #2 is necessary no matter what else happens with the rotation and is the most important acquisition of the offseason. And yes, I have significant concerns with our offense and feel we need several upgrades there. But without a legit #2, this team isn't going anywhere. Olson is the only potential #3 on the roster, and with his return from injury, I'll be shocked if he gets 20 starts. So Mize will need to step up for part of the year (otherwise he's a #4). And I do like our depth guys - Urquidy, Montero, SGL - strictly as spot starters or back of the rotation types. We absolutely don't need to sign any #4-#5 starter types. Let's not make the Cobb mistake again.

The Mets prospects are very underwhelming. My son's a Mets fans, so I probably know more about them than any other team not the Tigers. I love McLean, but given his performance this year my guess is he's untouchable. I'm not nearly as high on Tong, Sproat, Scott is coming off injury. I'm meh on Benge, Williams is redundant with many of our MI prospects, and Clifford is the exact opposite of the type of guy we should target. I do like Reimer, but he's more a complimentary piece and not a headliner.

No chance we get that. I think we get a top 20-30 guy, a top 75-10 guy, and a couple of lottery tickets. And I'd make that trade all day. They're not re-signing him.

I LOVE this team!!!

Such a hard team to root for. Garbage hitters. Inconsistent pitchers. Too-smart-for-his-own-good manager.

Yeah, that's not what's happening at all. You're trying to assign some complex designation to something that is, in fact, the most basic, elementary issue there is. This team is filled - from top to bottom - with illiterate hitters. Guys who don't understand hitting at all. Guys who show no recognition of contact hitting, zero situational awareness, and not only no signs of progress, but rather increasing signs of regression. Coaching hasn't helped them, that's for sure. But there are professional ball players - many of them vets. The fundamental flaws they consistently display are no one's fault but their own.

Tear it all down. All of it. Not a single hitter is worth building around.

That's 100% on Tork. No pitcher would have been ready for him to fire it over like that. Was totally unnecessary.

That's the Tigers baseball we've grown used to.

Evidently, you had the wrong girlfriend.

Completely agree. This team is severely flawed. You mention the lack of a leadoff hitter, which is true and one of the biggest issues. But the full-scale of the problem is 1 - 3. If we don't re-sign Torres, we'll have a gaping hole at #2. And what the team desperately needs is a true #3 hitter - a smart, high contact, high average guy (our Jose Ramirez). Based on current roster, I don't think we have any of those guys on our team. There was hope for Meadows, but I absolutely don't trust him at lead off at this point. There was hope Riley was our #3 hitter, and we now no that's not the case. And we have another 2 years to wait to see if McGonigle is that guy. We need to fill those top 3 spots in our lineup, and we need a #2 starter. And once they don't re-sign Skubal, we'll need a #1 starter, as well. Not sure how you fill all these holes, but Harris better get to work. Continues inactivity and/or bad signings on his part will put this team into a complete tear down.

And? This team as currently constructed is flawed from top to bottom, so why does throwing Skubal's last season with the team away matter when we can actually get players back for him rather than lose him for nothing?

Most important game of the year, and Sweeney is the best we can do. SMDH

Little late for that.

5 innings from the starters is not going to cut it with this bullpen. So while the starters haven't been the whole problem, they're certainly part of the problem.

You know things are bad when you have to prop up a team with a .382 win % just to avoid the reality that the Tigers are going to get trounced in the playoffs.

Valdez just threw at his own catcher. Hard pass. Imanaga and King aren't going anywhere. And Cease and Senga have been terrible. And yes, trades can be made. Read the thread and you'll see that's the point I'm trying to make. Harris didn't make the trade necessary to be a contender this year, and it will cost us in the playoffs. And most of the board seems OK with that in order to keep prospects. There's nothing more frustrating than being a playoff team with no legit shot at winning a title.

Not being a ****, but that's the kind of "hope and pray" that put us in the position we're in this year. It's just not going to cut it and will waste our last year with Skubal. Neither Mize nor Olsen are a #2 in a title contender. If Mize takes the next step, that's him becoming a consistent #3 who can prove he can last 6+ innings and/or not give up 4+ runs once every 4 starts. He hasn't shown that. If Olsen can stay healthy, he can be an OK #3. He showed some promise in the postseason, but 9 innings in 2 starts isn't going to cut it with a below average bullpen. Out of the rest, Jobe will be a total non-factor in 2026. Flaherty looks terrible and I have no interest in bringing him back. I like Melton and hope he can be a #4 but I'll settle for a #5 next year. And I'm just not high on SGL. His stuff is so hittable at the major league level. So once again, we'll find ourselves in the same position in 2026. Not to mention, what happens in 2027 when we lose Skubal? This team needs to find a top of the rotation guy before they find themselves with none.

Here's the list of free agent pitchers. It's piss poor. What's your plan to land a #2 pitcher who can help in the playoffs? Dylan Cease, Zac Gallen, Framber Valdez, Chris Sale (club option), Michael King (mutual option), Jack Flaherty (opt-out), Justin Verlander, Jordan Montgomery, Shane Bieber (player option), Shota Imanaga (club option/player option), Max Scherzer, Clayton Kershaw, Brandon Woodruff (mutual option), Zach Eflin, Kodai Senga (opt-out), Ranger Suárez, Chris Bassitt, Walker Buehler (mutual option), Nestor Cortes, Jon Gray, Merrill Kelly, Frankie Montas (opt-out), Dustin May, Tyler Mahle, Freddy Peralta (club option), Nick Martinez, Marcus Stroman (vesting option), Lucas Giolito (club option), Aaron Civale, Kenta Maeda, Charlie Morton, Michael Lorenzen (mutual option), Germán Márquez, José Urquidy (club option), Tyler Anderson, Andrew Heaney, Kyle Hendricks, Steven Matz, Miles Mikolas, Chris Paddack, Erick Fedde, Alex Cobb, Tomoyuki Sugano, Jose Quintana (mutual option), Griffin Canning, Michael Soroka, Martín Pérez (mutual option), Colin Rea (club option), Cal Quantrill, Kyle Hart (club option), John Means (club option), Patrick Corbin, Kyle Gibson

Joe Ryan, Mackenzie Gore. Even Edward Cabrera.

Can't say that I agree. Our SP is a trainwreck. And it's not like it's magically going to be better next year - adding Melton as a 4/5 might help the back end a little, but it won't move the needle for a time contender. And for those saying the prospect cost would have been too high. I'd rather trade prospects for a pitcher with a decent contract vs. spend $250M on one in FA.

That's a recipe for an ALDS exit. Mize has been far too inconsistent. The bullpen has 3 reliable arms, only 1 of which are "chaos" arms. And let's face it, not even Skubal has been his dominant self. I hope Harris' offseason plans are far more active than his trade deadline plans.