ICroupier

Half of the guys you listed in the "potential upside" section of your post will not see a single major league AB in 2026. I guess I could have specified I meant 2026 upside, but the topic was the state of - and upside of - the lineup in 2026. Under "big improvements", don't agree with any of those listed. Not sure why we'd expect big improvements from 28 and 29 year olds when their 2025 numbers were on par with or near the top of their career numbers. Vierling didn't play, so hard not to improve on that, but in terms of lineup impact, will he be an improvement over someone like McStinky or Baez (who would likely lose ABs to Vierling)? Maybe. Big improvement? Not likely. Under "still have another gear", I see 2 guys in Greene and Tork who should be in the "they are who they are" section. Re: Keith, I truly hope he has another gear and he's about the only guy I'm holding my breath on in terms of marked improvement.

So then what's your opinion on our lineup? Where is he wrong? What's the case for this projected starting lineup to be better than middle of the pack?

So where is he wrong? Grades: Hit: D- | Patience: C- | Power: C | Baserunning: F | Durability: D+ | Depth: A+ | vsR: D | vsL: D | Stars: 1 | Holes: 3 We had 1 starter hit over .260 last year. We were bottom 5 in the league in Ks. Dead last in SBs. The areas we performed best in, we ranked in the middle of the pack. Other teams below improved in the offseason. We didn't make a single move. We have a lineup with very little projection or upside. 6 out of 9 guys we know who they are. We need Dingler to at least maintain, and we need significant improvement from Keith and Meadows. Of those 3 things, I think 1 is likely to happen. Beyond that, maybe we get 200 ABs from McGonigle. Unlikely but maybe we get a contribution from Anderson or Lee. At best, we have a middle of the pack lineup. I believe the 18-20 range is more realistic.

ESPN has our lineup ranked 22nd. I think that's pretty spot on. https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/48017129/mlb-2026-ranking-baseball-best-lineups-dodgers-mets-mariners-braves-yankees-cubs

I'm not drawing meaning from these games. I drew meaning from their lack of improvement in the offseason and felt this way before spring training even started. We just now have the benefit of seeing it play out on the field.

Yes, it's only spring training. And yes, it's a small sample size. And yes, some of these guys will never see a major league roster. All the caveats. I still can't escape the fact that a team that struggled offensively through major stretches of last season did absolutely nothing to improve the offense and yet is somehow viewed as "all in" on this last season with Skubal. i think there's a 70% chance this team is a mess offensively this season. And maybe they're able to overcome that to a degree thanks to how terrible the Central is. But come playoff time, they will get smoked.

Just awful. If Harris goes this route, then I'm out on him. We need a #2 starter, not backend guys. Why would you spend precious FA dollars on the aging or injured, when you already have Anderson, Melton, Montero, and SGL? We also need a bat, so let's not throw away more money on Cobb 2.0.

If there wasn't video of it, I never would have believed that was a real Boras quote. I think Jason is correct in that Skubal told Boras something behind the scenes ("I'm staying in Detroit, so get the best deal you can from them") that broke his brain.

Completely agree

Was the "part" the hitters, pitchers and coaches?

Lordy, we wouldn't want to mess with the vibe of a team that completely **** the bed in a historic meltdown.

This is my thinking, as well. My hope is that Flaherty opts out, but I just don't see it happening, as I think he really likes it in Detroit. I'm fine with Melton as the #5, but only if we acquire a legit #2. A legit #2 is necessary no matter what else happens with the rotation and is the most important acquisition of the offseason. And yes, I have significant concerns with our offense and feel we need several upgrades there. But without a legit #2, this team isn't going anywhere. Olson is the only potential #3 on the roster, and with his return from injury, I'll be shocked if he gets 20 starts. So Mize will need to step up for part of the year (otherwise he's a #4). And I do like our depth guys - Urquidy, Montero, SGL - strictly as spot starters or back of the rotation types. We absolutely don't need to sign any #4-#5 starter types. Let's not make the Cobb mistake again.

The Mets prospects are very underwhelming. My son's a Mets fans, so I probably know more about them than any other team not the Tigers. I love McLean, but given his performance this year my guess is he's untouchable. I'm not nearly as high on Tong, Sproat, Scott is coming off injury. I'm meh on Benge, Williams is redundant with many of our MI prospects, and Clifford is the exact opposite of the type of guy we should target. I do like Reimer, but he's more a complimentary piece and not a headliner.

No chance we get that. I think we get a top 20-30 guy, a top 75-10 guy, and a couple of lottery tickets. And I'd make that trade all day. They're not re-signing him.

I LOVE this team!!!

Such a hard team to root for. Garbage hitters. Inconsistent pitchers. Too-smart-for-his-own-good manager.

Yeah, that's not what's happening at all. You're trying to assign some complex designation to something that is, in fact, the most basic, elementary issue there is. This team is filled - from top to bottom - with illiterate hitters. Guys who don't understand hitting at all. Guys who show no recognition of contact hitting, zero situational awareness, and not only no signs of progress, but rather increasing signs of regression. Coaching hasn't helped them, that's for sure. But there are professional ball players - many of them vets. The fundamental flaws they consistently display are no one's fault but their own.

Tear it all down. All of it. Not a single hitter is worth building around.

That's 100% on Tork. No pitcher would have been ready for him to fire it over like that. Was totally unnecessary.

That's the Tigers baseball we've grown used to.

Evidently, you had the wrong girlfriend.

Completely agree. This team is severely flawed. You mention the lack of a leadoff hitter, which is true and one of the biggest issues. But the full-scale of the problem is 1 - 3. If we don't re-sign Torres, we'll have a gaping hole at #2. And what the team desperately needs is a true #3 hitter - a smart, high contact, high average guy (our Jose Ramirez). Based on current roster, I don't think we have any of those guys on our team. There was hope for Meadows, but I absolutely don't trust him at lead off at this point. There was hope Riley was our #3 hitter, and we now no that's not the case. And we have another 2 years to wait to see if McGonigle is that guy. We need to fill those top 3 spots in our lineup, and we need a #2 starter. And once they don't re-sign Skubal, we'll need a #1 starter, as well. Not sure how you fill all these holes, but Harris better get to work. Continues inactivity and/or bad signings on his part will put this team into a complete tear down.

And? This team as currently constructed is flawed from top to bottom, so why does throwing Skubal's last season with the team away matter when we can actually get players back for him rather than lose him for nothing?

Most important game of the year, and Sweeney is the best we can do. SMDH