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1/13 Jets @ Red Wings


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44 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

Tonight they looked very comfortable about losing.

If I'm Stevie Y i'm wondering if I have to move some guys just to shake up what's looking like complacency setting in.

but who?  i dont know if they have anyone of value that they would be willing to move.

and i'm not moving someone just to shake up this bunch.  if they continue to lose that's better for them in the long run.  

and who do they have that could net anything in a trade?

youre not trading larkin, seider, vrana, raymond or ned.  who else is there?  bert has less value because of the no canada thing, and he's been your best player and always plays hard.  no one else is going to net you more than a 3rd rounder.  maybe someone wants to take a flyer on zadina's potential, but do you want to trade him at his lowest point of the season?  leddy is playing so poorly he may not be able to get you a 3rd anymore.

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2 hours ago, buddha said:

but who?  i dont know if they have anyone of value that they would be willing to move.

and i'm not moving someone just to shake up this bunch.  if they continue to lose that's better for them in the long run.  

and who do they have that could net anything in a trade?

youre not trading larkin, seider, vrana, raymond or ned.  who else is there?  bert has less value because of the no canada thing, and he's been your best player and always plays hard.  no one else is going to net you more than a 3rd rounder.  maybe someone wants to take a flyer on zadina's potential, but do you want to trade him at his lowest point of the season?  leddy is playing so poorly he may not be able to get you a 3rd anymore.

No question Yzerman is not is an enviable position - which is why I put it as 'wondering'. Do you just cut or buy out a couple guys and call a couple fresh bodies guys up? The cupboard is not exactly brimming at GR and if the guys don't justify your confidence it ends up a step backward.

I'll tell you what most drives my crazy: When a opponent receives a pass or digs out a puck along the boards and a Wing player is there - even one within a single step, the Wing will start backing down the ice instead of closing to check. You watch the Wings and it's like they are completely averse to fighting for possession. No other team in the NHL runs away from the other team in the center ice zone like that. You don't have to play like Kronwall did and put yourself at risk of getting your bell rung, but you can't expect to succeed at NHL hockey if you won't engage an opponent and fight for puck possession. And the other side of that same coin is that the Wings forecheck is pathetic. Now part of it is that the Wings are generally slow and afraid to get caught back, but tonight even Larkin's line was playing that way.  If that is Blashill, then he needs to go, if it's the players, someone or something needs to kick them in the arse.

Edited by gehringer_2
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13 hours ago, buddha said:

but who?  i dont know if they have anyone of value that they would be willing to move.

and i'm not moving someone just to shake up this bunch.  if they continue to lose that's better for them in the long run.  

and who do they have that could net anything in a trade?

youre not trading larkin, seider, vrana, raymond or ned.  who else is there?  bert has less value because of the no canada thing, and he's been your best player and always plays hard.  no one else is going to net you more than a 3rd rounder.  maybe someone wants to take a flyer on zadina's potential, but do you want to trade him at his lowest point of the season?  leddy is playing so poorly he may not be able to get you a 3rd anymore.

I don't think we have to trade talent or try to get top draft picks...

That doesn't matter.

Even if we're trading DeKeyser for a 7th rounder because someone needs "insurance" for the playoffs we're still removing dead weight. And if that's all Yzerman can do I don't think anyone will complain. Besides... if Hronek gets traded for "something"... isn't this forum "on board" with that?

Personally, I want to give Hronek more time before making that decision. But moving any of DeKeyser, Staal, Greiss, Nametnikov or Gagner for a late round pick because someone wants playoff depth wouldn't bother me at all. They are all expiring contracts. Out with the old, in with the new. If we get offered a 4th for Leddy, also an expiring... I'd at least think about that too...

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10 hours ago, gehringer_2 said:

... I'll tell you what most drives my crazy: When a opponent receives a pass or digs out a puck along the boards and a Wing player is there - even one within a single step, the Wing will start backing down the ice instead of closing to check. You watch the Wings and it's like they are completely averse to fighting for possession. No other team in the NHL runs away from the other team in the center ice zone like that...

Fire Blashill.

It's time.

I wasn't really thinking about it before this year during the reconstruction.

But they are starting to bring up talented players that need better leadership than Blashill. I'm ready for that change now. 

I like the Larionov idea. Puck control and pinpoint passing. But we need better power play coaching and to your point, finishing checks rather than running away... Need some coaching for that too...

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1 minute ago, 1984Echoes said:

I don't think we have to trade talent or try to get top draft picks...

That doesn't matter.

Even if we're trading DeKeyser for a 7th rounder because someone needs "insurance" for the playoffs we're still removing dead weight. And if that's all Yzerman can do I don't think anyone will complain. Besides... if Hronek gets traded for "something"... isn't this forum "on board" with that?

Personally, I want to give Hronek more time before making that decision. But moving any of DeKeyser, Staal, Greiss, Nametnikov or Gagner for a late round pick because someone wants playoff depth wouldn't bother me at all. They are all expiring contracts. Out with the old, in with the new. If we get offered a 4th for Leddy, also an expiring... I'd at least think about that too...

why would anyone trade for those guys?  you know there are other teams in the league, with other players on their rosters who are available and better than those nothings.  lol.

i kid.  but i seriously dont think any of those guys other than maybe hronek or namesrikov gets you more than a 5th round pick.  staal, gagner, and ESPECIALLY dekyser with his contract get you nothing.

leddy might pull a 3rd.  a 2nd if he starts to improve his game and you keep some salary.  greiss isnt getting you anything.

i guess you can keep hronek, i think he's still restricted next year.  but he's making $4 million this year, i think.  i dont think he's played up to that salary.

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11 hours ago, gehringer_2 said:

.... Do you just cut or buy out a couple guys and call a couple fresh bodies guys up? The cupboard is not exactly brimming at GR and if the guys don't justify your confidence it ends up a step backward...

Taking a step back whilst we finish out this year is just not a critical criteria to me at the moment. We can always reload in the offseason with new signings, trades, prospect graduations (and not necessarily from GR...), etc.

I'm in full-on "out with the old and in with the new" mode.

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2 minutes ago, buddha said:

why would anyone trade for those guys?  you know there are other teams in the league, with other players on their rosters who are available and better than those nothings.  lol.

i kid.  but i seriously dont think any of those guys other than maybe hronek or namesrikov gets you more than a 5th round pick.  staal, gagner, and ESPECIALLY dekyser with his contract get you nothing.

leddy might pull a 3rd.  a 2nd if he starts to improve his game and you keep some salary.  greiss isnt getting you anything.

i guess you can keep hronek, i think he's still restricted next year.  but he's making $4 million this year, i think.  i dont think he's played up to that salary.

Hronek maybe hasn't played to his salary... but I'd still want to hold on just for now...

Yeah, I don't follow the hockey trades as much as I do in other sports... so it's a little opaque to me. I don't know who is worth a 6th or 7th rounder or a better pick... I mean I get there are other teams/ players available... I just don't have a good understanding in hockey world...

I would say this:

Yzerman has shocked me with some of the trades he has pulled out of his hat...

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11 hours ago, gehringer_2 said:

... The cupboard is not exactly brimming at GR ...

PS: One last thing...

I'm still holding out hope that there are a couple of guys at GR that just need a couple years to develop and that they can still turn into productive players for Detroit.

Berggren I'm hoping could still turn into a top-6 forward but... we'll see. 1st year in the AHL. 20 points in his last 22 games so... On a Red Wing and a prayer, or just holding out hope, that he could be one of the 2nd line guys that we need along with Vrana. Maybe we'll see him in 2022 and...

McIsaac? Is he a 3rd pairing D who pushes Staal out the door? Good enough that he's a net positive for the Wings, or at least a whole lot better than what we currently have as a 3rd pair? 

Tyutyayev is a fast offensive player, and young and small and 1st year AHL player and...?

The Red Wings seem to really like Sebrango... a defensive defenseman at +11 in 25 GR games. But young at 20... 2nd year AHL. Is he good enough to be a 2nd pairing guy? Can he cover up Hronek's mistakes as a 2nd pair?

 

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i'm not holding out a lot of hope for any of the later year ken holland draft picks.  i think their scouting was poor and they made poor draft picks as a result.

if any of mcissac or berggren or anyone else ends up as more than a 3rd line filler player (like ras, zadina, svech, cholo, veleno, etc etc) i will be pleasantly surprised.

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I'll never understand all the Blashill love from Red Wings fans.  Amazing how someone who has failed at all aspects of his job still gets so much support.  But, but, he has no talent.  How many coaches that get fired are loaded with talent?  As many good things as Yzerman has done, I just can't get on board with him keeping Blashill around for so long.

Heard Yzerman on with Stoney the other day and he seemed unconcerned about the team and felt they are exactly where he expected them to be.  

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