Red Wings Offseason 2025

[1984Echoes]

1 hour ago, Shinzaki said:

...I am not shopping any of our young goalies until we know what we have.

THIS is my point... I agree with Shinzaki. I really don't want to trade away Eugenio Suarez or Isaac Paredes before we even KNOW what we have. It's worth it in my opinion to see what his upside may or may not be... NOT that Cossa is going to be the next mini-Jacques Plante or mini-Gretzky or whatever...

 

1 hour ago, Shinzaki said:

I'm beginning to think that we aren't going to be governed by a Larkin/Cat timeline...

I think most of us have gotten to this point.

 

1 hour ago, Shinzaki said:

...  More like a Seider/Raymond/Kasper/whomever else emerges window...

Based on this... and I agree...

If I am open to trading anyone, it's Larkin or Cat in order to reset our timeline. 

Every team having money creates some FA difficulty for us...

But a team wanting to remain playoff/Cup-competitive MAY afford us an opportunity by wanting cost-known/controlled Cat or Larkin in exchange for a pending or soon-to-be FA that is 25-ish and going to bust their cap budget.

Jason Robertson may or may not be the perfect example. 

Larkin for Robertson?

Our new top line would be Kasper-Raymond-Robertson (I would be EXCITED about that line!!!) and we would figure everything else out around those guys and Seider-Edvinsson and Cossa-Augustine. With lots of other guys getting close to the NHL and on this new timeline...

Just my 2 cents.

[1984Echoes]

1 hour ago, Jason_R said:

... Thought experiment:

Larkin is signed to a pretty friendly contract. What would he sign for today, AAV, if he were UFA? What kind of a trade premium would that difference between his actual AAV and his market AAV?

 

POINT!!!

[buddha]

what does "til we find out what we have" mean?

you want to wait until you find out whether cossa is a good nhl goalie?  or that he isnt?

so you wont trade anyone until you find out they suck.  guess what?  no one will want them then and youve waited too long to move an asset that now has no value.  you move him for an asset when he has value, not when you know he doesnt.

you just want to give up nothing and get an all star in return.

[slothfacekilla]

I feel like Larkin is pretty fairly paid myself haha.  It's just nice because it isn't an overpay.

 

Edited 19 hours ago by slothfacekilla

[Shinzaki]

11 minutes ago, buddha said:

what does "til we find out what we have" mean?

you want to wait until you find out whether cossa is a good nhl goalie?  or that he isnt?

so you wont trade anyone until you find out they suck.  guess what?  no one will want them then and youve waited too long to move an asset that now has no value.  you move him for an asset when he has value, not when you know he doesnt.

you just want to give up nothing and get an all star in return.

Unless someone knocks our socks off with a great deal..I'm not looking to trade Cossa now.

The smartest thing to do with him is have him start in GR and bring him up later as Gibson's back up.  Then you can see if you need to move on from him if he fails.  I know you're an Augustine slappy...but he's further behind Cossa at this point and I see little reason in his background to date to think he's measurably better than Cossa as a prospect.

They spent a 1st round pick on Cossa and a few years developing him..yes..those are sunk costs, but I think the better proposition from a value standpoint is to see if he's what he thought he was when you drafted him.   Trading him now makes very little sense

[lordstanley]

 

[lordstanley]

28 minutes ago, Shinzaki said:

 

They spent a 1st round pick on Cossa and a few years developing him..yes..those are sunk costs, but I think the better proposition from a value standpoint is to see if he's what he thought he was when you drafted him.   Trading him now makes very little sense

Agreed. I bet he’d yield a 2nd or lower if he was to be traded now. Not worth it now that we’ve waited this long, better off sticking it out. 

[1984Echoes]

2 hours ago, buddha said:

... you've waited too long to move an asset that now has no value.  you move him for an asset when he has value...

What value does Cossa have, right now?

What can we get in trade for him, right now?

[slothfacekilla]

6 minutes ago, 1984Echoes said:

What value does Cossa have, right now?

What can we get in trade for him, right now?

 

Askarov went for a top 10 protected first round pick, a solid forward prospect (32nd overall pick by vegas originally, profile reads like a Danielson type) and a former 5th round pick goalie prospect who seems to be settling into the AHL at age 24.  Askarov is probably one of the top goalie prospects in the last 10 years or something like that so less than that for sure. 

Not sure where I would place his "exact" value myself.  My guess would be a second round pick + a Max Plante type prospect or solid roster player but even typing that out gave me the impression I'm probably way off.  I could see his actual value above or below that honestly.  A lot of gm's love toolsy goalies like that but also goalie development is weird as hell and scares teams.

[buddha]

21 minutes ago, slothfacekilla said:

 

Askarov went for a top 10 protected first round pick, a solid forward prospect (32nd overall pick by vegas originally, profile reads like a Danielson type) and a former 5th round pick goalie prospect who seems to be settling into the AHL at age 24.  Askarov is probably one of the top goalie prospects in the last 10 years or something like that so less than that for sure. 

Not sure where I would place his "exact" value myself.  My guess would be a second round pick + a Max Plante type prospect or solid roster player but even typing that out gave me the impression I'm probably way off.  I could see his actual value above or below that honestly.  A lot of gm's love toolsy goalies like that but also goalie development is weird as hell and scares teams.

i'd be in favor including him in a deal for an established guy who fits the timeline.  i would have dealt him for dobson plus #13 plus a little mpre if the islanders wanted had wanted him.

or keeping him.  whatever.

he's going to play this year.  there is little chance both red wings' injury prone goalies stay healthy all season.  so we'll see how he does.  i hope he's markstrom.

[buddha]

43 minutes ago, 1984Echoes said:

What value does Cossa have, right now?

What can we get in trade for him, right now?

what does "til we find out what we have" mean?

[buddha]

2 hours ago, Shinzaki said:

Unless someone knocks our socks off with a great deal..I'm not looking to trade Cossa now.

The smartest thing to do with him is have him start in GR and bring him up later as Gibson's back up.  Then you can see if you need to move on from him if he fails.  I know you're an Augustine slappy...but he's further behind Cossa at this point and I see little reason in his background to date to think he's measurably better than Cossa as a prospect.

They spent a 1st round pick on Cossa and a few years developing him..yes..those are sunk costs, but I think the better proposition from a value standpoint is to see if he's what he thought he was when you drafted him.   Trading him now makes very little sense

cossa is high ceiling/low floor.  augustine is high floor and likely lower ceiling.

if that makes me an augustine slappy, so be it.

what it actually makes me is someone who is skeptical of goalie prospects.

[gehringer_2]

6 minutes ago, buddha said:

cossa is high ceiling/low floor.  augustine is high floor and likely lower ceiling.

if that makes me an augustine slappy, so be it.

what it actually makes me is someone who is skeptical of goalie prospects.

Not sure any goalie has a particularly high floor - but I get the idea.  😉

[slothfacekilla]

I didn't realize Wheeler had Fowler over Augustine in his rankings.  Interesting choice since it seems like internationally Augustine seems to get the nod over Fowler.

[buddha]

15 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

Not sure any goalie has a particularly high floor - but I get the idea.  😉

the nhl drafts for size a lot of times.  cossa is huge and that's part of his appeal.  if he hits he likely hits big.  smaller goalies dont alwaya fair as well, but there have been quite a few who did well last season.

wheeler just talked about it on the athletic podcast.  mentioned cossa on particular and commented about how he hadnt exactly set the world on fire at grand rapids last year.  i think he's too harsh on cossa because he did really well for a lot of the year and fell apart at the end.

we'll find out more about him this year because i think he's going to get some nhl games.

[gehringer_2]

15 minutes ago, buddha said:

the nhl drafts for size a lot of times.  cossa is huge and that's part of his appeal

Right - the question is did they already see the makings of a goalie there that happened to be big, or did they just draft a big kid who played in goal hoping he could turn into a goalie? 

[Shinzaki]

I think his performance in juniors and the evaluations by scouts had a lot more to do with Cossa getting picked than his size.  I get that the end of the season and playoffs were shaky in GR...but that whole team had issues.  Dating back to his run in Jrs and three pro seasons his worst save % is .911.  

[slothfacekilla]

Ya I agree with Shin, he had some stuff to clean up but I remember him being a pretty elite prospect overall.

I'm still very excited about him (shocker I know).  I went back to watch some scouting videos to refresh my memory and I got caught up in the rabbithole of his highlight videos for a bit 😆.  His athleticism at his size really is tantalizing when he is on.

[buddha]

wings open with montreal, toronto x2, florida, tampa, and edmonton.

sheesh nhl, just kill all our hopes before thanksgiving.