2025 ALL STAR GAME THREAD JULY 15 8:00 PM

[Klondike]

Anything is better than the ghost runners

[oblong]

29 minutes ago, chasfh said:

I would be OK with zombie runners starting in the 11th, although I am starting to make my peace with the thing starting in the 10th. At a certain point, I have to recognize the thing is never going to change to something I would prefer that no one is talking about anyway.

I will never OK with ghost runners. I think we need an actual human being on the bases out there. 😉

and I've seen conflicting accounts on whether the extra runner actually prevents what they claim.  I also saw one that so far the visiting team won over 50% of the games and the idea being that since they are likely to score first, that puts the home team at a disadvantage because "team's play differnet when they are trailing...."  I don't know.  Seems like the goal if you are down in the bottom of the 10th is to still tie the game.  You want to score the runner whether it's the top or bottom.  In the top you have the pressure of knowing if you score they can tie it.  In the bottom you have the advantage that if you are tied and you score, you win. Probably not enough data points to draw conclusions.

So I'm against things that are done "just because".  I need proof it's doing what you say it's doing.  At least with a HR contest we know "This ends now."

[Tiger337]

58 minutes ago, chasfh said:

This from the guy who wants to see an eight-man batting order. 😉😘

I don't want it.  It's logical though.  If you don't want the pitcher to bat, just don't have him bat.  Why stick a DH in there who isn't even playing the game in the field? 

[chasfh]

21 minutes ago, Tiger337 said:

I don't want it.  It's logical though.  If you don't want the pitcher to bat, just don't have him bat.  Why stick a DH in there who isn't even playing the game in the field? 

Would you rather have the nine-man order with the DH, or the eight-man order without it? Not what is logical, but which would you prefer?

[theroundsquare]

i don't know if any of you may get the emails too, but i got the survey link for 'fans at bat' about the all-star game.  i made my (hateful) thoughts about the 'swing-off' known.

Edited Thursday at 05:14 PM by theroundsquare
i don't type good

[Motor City Sonics]

We're going to have a swing off in regular season games

 

We're going to have the Magic At Bat - or whatever it's called, Golden At-Bat

 

We'll probably have a game where fans get to make the moves for the managers, at least in an exhibition game.  

 

I don't mind changes, but some of them are ugly to me.   

 

But I'm Old Guy Yelling At Cloud

 

[Motor City Sonics]

What I do think could happen in the future is the ability to bring back a player into a game after they've been replaced, but you can only do it once and it costs you an out.   If you do it on offense you lose an out.   If you do it on defense the other team gets an extra out.    The way managers (like AJ) use their bench so frequently they will make measures to make sure teams don't have to put a pitcher into the field where they'll break like china dolls,  I guess. 

[motownblues]

Bill Veeck did just that in 1951. He was the owner of the St. Louis Browns and handed out placards to the fan who in turn made the managerial Decisions for that one game.

[Tiger337]

3 hours ago, chasfh said:

Would you rather have the nine-man order with the DH, or the eight-man order without it? Not what is logical, but which would you prefer?

I like the idea of the 8-man order with no DH better, but I am so used to the DH now, that it's not really an issue.  The DH has been around since I was a kid.  I will never like the extra inning base runner rule.  I have not gotten used to it at all.  

[Sports_Freak]

18 hours ago, chasfh said:

Oh, **** me, here we go … 

 

 

 

The start of gaslighting the public.

"You know you just love the swing off, 100% of the millions of fans surveyed say they ALL love it. Just trust us on this one, you want it and every single person in the world wants it. So MLB will reluctantly give it to you all. It wasn't OUR idea, the fans ALL wanted it."

[Sports_Freak]

The solution to the extra innings issue at an All Star game is really simple. Both teams get a 2 pitcher taxi squad named to the team after teams are selected. Only emergency extra inning pitchers. Not allowed to pitch in the 1st 9 innings. If, after 11 inning and the game still tied, each league gets to name 3 players for a home run swing off. Any players are eligible, even if they've been removed from the game. This is the reason we didn't get to see Judge or Cal Raleigh, among others.

[chasfh]

32 minutes ago, Tiger337 said:

I like the idea of the 8-man order with no DH better, but I am so used to the DH now, that it's not really an issue.  The DH has been around since I was a kid.  I will never like the extra inning base runner rule.  I have not gotten used to it at all.  

If you like an 8-man batting order over what we have now, that means you do want it. We'll never see it, though ...

[chasfh]

10 minutes ago, Sports_Freak said:

The start of gaslighting the public.

"You know you just love the swing off, 100% of the millions of fans surveyed say they ALL love it. Just trust us on this one, you want it and every single person in the world wants it. So MLB will reluctantly give it to you all. It wasn't OUR idea, the fans ALL wanted it."

Honestly, I think all it will take to adopt it is for Players and Baseball to want it.

I wouldn't be surprised if older fans overwhelmingly reject it, but I would be surprised if Baseball discards the idea because of that. As long as younger fans and gamblers are at least lukewarm on it, it's gonna happen.

[Sports_Freak]

52 minutes ago, chasfh said:

Honestly, I think all it will take to adopt it is for Players and Baseball to want it.

I wouldn't be surprised if older fans overwhelmingly reject it, but I would be surprised if Baseball discards the idea because of that. As long as younger fans and gamblers are at least lukewarm on it, it's gonna happen.

At the end of 9 innings of a tie game, fans need to walk out. That would send a message. It wouldn't matter but...whatever.

[Tiger337]

1 hour ago, chasfh said:

If you like an 8-man batting order over what we have now, that means you do want it. We'll never see it, though ...

Of course it's never happening.  That is why it's just an intellectual exercise.  I don't know if I would have even liked it in practice.  The reason why pitchers don't bat anymore is because most of them hit poorly and they wanted to add more hitting to the game.  Their solution was to not have pitchers bat and add another hitter.  It would have been easier just to have 8 batters bat.  Either way it would have been a big change to the game, but I don't think either fundamentally changes the way the game is played the way the extra inning nonsense does.  What they are doing now is the equivalent of deciding that pitchers still bat, but they get a walk after just two balls.     

[IdahoBert]

Does the extra inning base runner rule shorten the length of extra inning games and result in fewer arm injuries for pitchers overall? Does it mean that bull pens end up being less taxed and and better able to perform in games later in the week? 

[IdahoBert]

Also, when I just now “did my own research” I read that it’s estimated that an eight batter lineup would give each batter an extra 63 at bats in a season which I presume would make statistical comparisons between different eras less reliable.

Of course, the 162 game schedule already made that problematic and batters that would have more off days can DH now compared to earlier eras so that’s already sort of happened but perhaps not to the extent of 63 extra at bats a season.
 

 

[Tiger337]

51 minutes ago, IdahoBert said:

Does the extra inning base runner rule shorten the length of extra inning games and result in fewer arm injuries for pitchers overall? Does it mean that bull pens end up being less taxed and and better able to perform in games later in the week? 

It shortens games.  Given that pitchers are still getting injured at an alarming rate, I am very skeptical as to whether it has resulted in fewer injuries.  Are relievers performing better?  Again, I am skeptical.  Basically, the only benefit I see is that we don't have a tiny percentage of games lasting so many innings that teams run out of real pitchers.  That seems like an argument for letting them play real baseball for 11 innings or so and then do fake baseball startting in the 12th.  I still wouldn't like it but at least it would only be a very small percentage of games.       

[IdahoBert]

1 hour ago, Tiger337 said:

It shortens games.  Given that pitchers are still getting injured at an alarming rate, I am very skeptical as to whether it has resulted in fewer injuries.  Are relievers performing better?  Again, I am skeptical.  Basically, the only benefit I see is that we don't have a tiny percentage of games lasting so many innings that teams run out of real pitchers.  That seems like an argument for letting them play real baseball for 11 innings or so and then do fake baseball startting in the 12th.  I still wouldn't like it but at least it would only be a very small percentage of games.       

I have a feeling that ownership may be approaching this from a more practical end of the spectrum by trying to minimize financial losses instead of having an overriding concern for the dignity of the game itself. 

[Motor City Sonics]

Instead of ghost runner - Maybe - starting in the 10th inning, the defensive team has to take one player off the field and then for every inning until the 12th they have to take another off the field.     Then if it's still tied - a tug of war.   

[Tiger337]

7 minutes ago, IdahoBert said:

I have a feeling that ownership may be approaching this from a more practical end of the spectrum by trying to minimize financial losses instead of having an overriding concern for the dignity of the game itself. 

There is no doubt it's all about money.  

[chasfh]

12 hours ago, Tiger337 said:

It shortens games.  Given that pitchers are still getting injured at an alarming rate, I am very skeptical as to whether it has resulted in fewer injuries.  Are relievers performing better?  Again, I am skeptical.  Basically, the only benefit I see is that we don't have a tiny percentage of games lasting so many innings that teams run out of real pitchers.  That seems like an argument for letting them play real baseball for 11 innings or so and then do fake baseball startting in the 12th.  I still wouldn't like it but at least it would only be a very small percentage of games.       

It seems reasonable hypotheses have settled on the extreme effort pitchers put on their pitches to maximize speed and movement from the very first pitch of the game as the likely cause of injuries, rather than on more pitches thrown necessarily. It has become a Faustian bargain all pitchers appear to make: accept that you will have catastrophic injuries requiring surgeries in exchange for the possibility of making millions.

[chasfh]

10 hours ago, IdahoBert said:

I have a feeling that ownership may be approaching this from a more practical end of the spectrum by trying to minimize financial losses instead of having an overriding concern for the dignity of the game itself. 

There is that, and also, the players prefer the zombie runner because it allows them to punch out sooner.

[Klondike]

17 hours ago, Tiger337 said:

I like the idea of the 8-man order with no DH better, but I am so used to the DH now, that it's not really an issue.  The DH has been around since I was a kid.  I will never like the extra inning base runner rule.  I have not gotten used to it at all.  

It's best feature (the DH) is simply it allows older players who cant run or play the field well to stick around and hit. Pretty much the only positive thing. The unions love it.

[chasfh]

26 minutes ago, Klondike said:

It's best feature (the DH) is simply it allows older players who cant run or play the field well to stick around and hit. Pretty much the only positive thing. The unions love it.

Per FanGraphs, the average age of DHs is 28, which is less than the average age for catchers and first basemen; and the same as the average age for third basemen, right fielders, and left fielders.