AlaskanTigersFan Posted July 24 Author Posted July 24 Just now, Edman85 said: Riley Greene getting benched in this scenario? No. We can even move Freeland to RF (where he'd be a plus defender) or put Green in RF and when Carp Returns put him at DH. 1. Freeland - RF 2. Carpenter - DH 3. Green - LF 4. Torres - 2B 5. Torkelson - 1B 6. Keith - 3B 7. Baez - SS 8. Dingler - C 9. Meadows - CF Thats a long lineup with a huge table setter at the top. Much more respectable as a playoff team. Quote
AlaskanTigersFan Posted July 24 Author Posted July 24 THat allows our "all-star" McKinstry to sub each day wherever needed as well. *Side note* - I'd love the Tigers to go after Adley Rutschman. Talk about bad luck. All of his underlying metrics show he's a top 5 C in the game. Whoever buys low on him will look like a genius of Baltimore's actually stupid enough to trade him which I think they might actually be..... Quote
chasfh Posted July 24 Posted July 24 (edited) 6 minutes ago, AlaskanTigersFan said: No. We can even move Freeland to RF (where he'd be a plus defender) or put Green in RF and when Carp Returns put him at DH. 1. Freeland - RF 2. Carpenter - DH 3. Green - LF 4. Torres - 2B 5. Torkelson - 1B 6. Keith - 3B 7. Baez - SS 8. Dingler - C 9. Meadows - CF Thats a long lineup with a huge table setter at the top. Much more respectable as a playoff team. FWIW, Freeman has the wing for right, but his range is crap. If we're going to commit to Tyler Freeman in the outfield for the next three years, who out of Riley, Parker, Wenceel, Carpenter, and Max get the other two slots and who gets squeezed out? Edited July 24 by chasfh Quote
Tiger337 Posted July 24 Posted July 24 7 minutes ago, chasfh said: FWIW, Freeman has the wing for right, but his range is crap. If we're going to commit to Tyler Freeman in the outfield for the next three years, who out of Riley, Parker, Wenceel, Carpenter, and Max get the other two slots and who gets squeezed out? Max is part of the trade. Remember? Quote
chasfh Posted July 24 Posted July 24 lol, no, really, serious question for ATF. Who of those five get squeezed out if we commit to Freeman in right for three years? I want to understand the thinking. Quote
AlaskanTigersFan Posted July 24 Author Posted July 24 (edited) 27 minutes ago, chasfh said: lol, no, really, serious question for ATF. Who of those five get squeezed out if we commit to Freeman in right for three years? I want to understand the thinking. No, I appreciate the dialogue. When Max is ready, I think Perez or even Freeman can get moved. Parker Meadows can easily be replaced by Max Clark. But I think the best OF (based on what we actually have right now) would be Green (LF), Clark(CF) and Freeman (RF) (in an ideal world). Carpenter is more of a DH kind of guy anyway. But Perez/Meadows and Carp would be on outside looking in and can be used in deals to help other areas. But this is baseball. We will need depth, injuries happen or players years will go to 💩💩💩. As a stratomatic player, I get to see even stars have crap years literally every year. It happens. We can always use depth. Justice Bigbie and Campos will be ready in the next few years too if they hit as a prospect. Moving Perez and/or Meadows wouldn't be the worst thing in the world when Clark is ready. Perez in my opinion is an average (at best) player, nothing special but gets the job done. Meadows is an above average defender but I don't see him being a great hitter (league average would be fantastic if he can do that which he's shown glimpses of, but hasn't been able to recreate consistently). Carpenter can hit the crap out of the ball but isn't a great defender. I could also see us moving Freeman and having the Tigers spend on a Free Agent RF as well. Understand, I think Freeman is having a career year. But if we can ride him this year as a table setter, it'd help this team a TON this year. But even going forward, I'd rather have Freeman in the OF than Perez. We need more .350+ OBP guys. We have enough power, we need guys on base that can be on base when the power launches one over the fence. Freeland was always supposed to be that super high OBP guy. We need one of those (partially why I'm still pissed we let Liam Hicks walk for free when he's a .400 OBP guy... fml) Good teams have repeatable depth that they can deal from. If we move an OF or two because we have more coming up in the minors, that's a good thing. This year we are lacking but the farm is close to producing. We can take advantage of the situation and keep replenishing our farm. Not every prospect will make it or succeed as we predict as you know. So if we increase our odds, then I think we kind of hedge our bet. Out of all honesty, I'd love to see this deal made, then in the off season, spend 400 million on Kyle Tucker. You can then parlay Freeman (to a team like the cubs) for pitching or whatnot. But can you imagine Green, Clark, Tucker? Bruh. The Tigers are in a position to spend on some players. Soon they'll have to pay their own players. I just pray it's not on Skubal and more on position players. Most SP contracts don't work out nearly as well as position players. I'd rather have Kyle Tucker than Skubal on my team for the next 10 years. But again, that's just my opinion. Edited July 24 by AlaskanTigersFan Quote
Edman85 Posted July 24 Posted July 24 Bigbie? The guy who moved back a level and has been passed up repeatedly for promotion? He's more likely to be cut by next year's opening day than graduate to the bigs. 2 Quote
AlaskanTigersFan Posted July 24 Author Posted July 24 2 minutes ago, AlaskanTigersFan said: Good teams have repeatable depth that they can deal from. If we move an OF or two because we have more coming up in the minors, that's a good thing. This year we are lacking but the farm is close to producing. We can take advantage of the situation and keep replenishing our farm. Not every prospect will make it or succeed as we predict as you know. So if we increase our odds, then I think we kind of hedge our bet. I also want to point out, I love how Tampa Bay and the Dodgers do this every year specifically. They move players when younger players are ready, in order to get even younger players in return to restock the farm system (Selling one veteran for two or three high end prospects that are a few years away). IIRC we have some people in our front office that came from both the Dodgers and Rays system. It's a good model. I love watching what the Rays, Dodgers and to an extent the Brewers do each year when they have to finalize their 40 man rosters before the Rule 5 draft. The amount of anti acid pills and pepto bismol that those GM's and Presidents of Operations must take because of the pressure on who to keep and who to expose is probably by the pallet stacks. The Tigers are almost at that point. I'd love it if we had so many prospects, we have to let some go. Which is kind of what happened this year with Hicks...... I think we are honestly almost there, and a deal like what I presented kind of sets us up to do that going forward....... (Sorry for multiple posts but I think it's important to see the whole picture of moving other "pieces" that can be used to plug other holes.) Quote
AlaskanTigersFan Posted July 24 Author Posted July 24 6 minutes ago, Edman85 said: Bigbie? The guy who moved back a level and has been passed up repeatedly for promotion? He's more likely to be cut by next year's opening day than graduate to the bigs. I think Bigbie is in the top 7 or 8 OF'rs for the Tigers Depth chart. But again, I want the Tigers to go after Kyle Tucker or someone like that in the OF. Quote
Tenacious D Posted July 24 Posted July 24 Rainer is our future SS, not McGonigle, who likely ends up at 2B. Yost is very far away and might eventually push Rainer to 3B. I’d put Bryce in the rare untouchable tier, with Clark and McGonigle. 3 Quote
chasfh Posted July 24 Posted July 24 9 minutes ago, AlaskanTigersFan said: No, I appreciate the dialogue. When Max is ready, I think Perez or even Freeman can get moved. Parker Meadows can easily be replaced by Max Clark. But I think the best OF (based on what we actually have right now) would be Green (LF), Clark(CF) and Freeman (RF) (in an ideal world). Carpenter is more of a DH kind of guy anyway. But Perez/Meadows and Carp would be on outside looking in and can be used in deals to help other areas. But this is baseball. We will need depth, injuries happen or players years will go to 💩💩💩. As a stratomatic player, I get to see even stars have crap years literally every year. It happens. We can always use depth. Justice Bigbie and Campos will be ready in the next few years too if they hit as a prospect. Moving Perez and/or Meadows wouldn't be the worst thing in the world when Clark is ready. Perez in my opinion is an average (at best) player, nothing special but gets the job done. Meadows is an above average defender but I don't see him being a great hitter (league average would be fantastic if he can do that which he's shown glimpses of, but hasn't been able to recreate consistently). Carpenter can hit the crap out of the ball but isn't a great defender. I could also see us moving Freeman and having the Tigers spend on a Free Agent RF as well. Understand, I think Freeman is having a career year. But if we can ride him this year as a table setter, it'd help this team a TON this year. But even going forward, I'd rather have Freeman in the OF than Perez. We need more .350+ OBP guys. We have enough power, we need guys on base that can be on base when the power launches one over the fence. Freeland was always supposed to be that super high OBP guy. We need one of those (partially why I'm still pissed we let Liam Hicks walk for free when he's a .400 OBP guy... fml) Good teams have repeatable depth that they can deal from. If we move an OF or two because we have more coming up in the minors, that's a good thing. This year we are lacking but the farm is close to producing. We can take advantage of the situation and keep replenishing our farm. Not every prospect will make it or succeed as we predict as you know. So if we increase our odds, then I think we kind of hedge our bet. Out of all honesty, I'd love to see this deal made, then in the off season, spend 400 million on Kyle Tucker. You can then parlay Freeman (to a team like the cubs) for pitching or whatnot. But can you imagine Green, Clark, Tucker? Bruh. The Tigers are in a position to spend on some players. Soon they'll have to pay their own players. I just pray it's not on Skubal and more on position players. Most SP contracts don't work out nearly as well as position players. I'd rather have Kyle Tucker than Skubal on my team for the next 10 years. But again, that's just my opinion. Appreciate the detailed response. If Tyler Freeman might be a .300 hitter, but if he is having a career year with his 0.4 fWAR (or, worse, a -0.1 bWAR), then I wouldn't want him here regressing on my dime. I simply don't think Freeman gives us anything more in RF than we have gotten so far from Wenceel, Herry, Zach, and company. I don't see him as a clear upgrade and I would not be willing to spend even mid-level prospect capital for him. Besides, I just don't see the outfield as being a clear problem for us going forward, with the possible exception of a still-injured Parker, who could be replaced in center by Javy at the moment of truth. I doubt Max starts in Detroit next year, and I really doubt we go all in and spend half a billion on a stick over the winter, especially in the outfield where there are still plans. I take your point about Tucker, but I'm not sure Harris thinks he'll be a fit, nor do I necessarily think we are on Tucker's radar. 1 Quote
AlaskanTigersFan Posted July 24 Author Posted July 24 3 minutes ago, Tenacious D said: Rainer is our future SS, not McGonigle, who likely ends up at 2B. Yost is very far away and might eventually push Rainer to 3B. I’d put Bryce in the rare untouchable tier, with Clark and McGonigle. I think you're right pretty much. I'm honestly in your boat. but For those that want to make a serious run at a WS this year, in order to get things that'd help, it's going to cost something. Rainer is about the cost I think it'd take. The Pirates Deal would be very appealing as it wouldn't mortgage the future but still greatly enhance our team this year. (Yes, I like the Pirates deal WAY MORE than the Rockies Deal, I was just throwing some stuff out there to get your thoughts on things). I think we're playing way above expectations (I am vehemently on record saying this last year as well and took a lot of flack for it). But having said that, if some people want to "go for it" this year, then the type of deal with the Pirates I think is pretty realistic and it'd cost someone of Rainer's value. Pirates won't give away an All star closer, #2/#3 type starter and the best defensive 3B in the game without getting something back. I'm making them throw in their third best pitching prospect as well to add more value in giving up Rainer. I really think that's a realistic deal that helps us now without mortgaging the future. I'd rather not do any deal involving Rainer. But I think he's the absolute highest prospect we'd trade if we get something actually good in return. Quote
Tenacious D Posted July 24 Posted July 24 Barring some collapses, I think our OF for the foreseeable future is already in the organization (and doesn’t include Bigbie or Campos). We may supplement with a part-time corner guy, but I don’t see a big OF acquisition coming. Quote
SoCalTiger Posted July 24 Posted July 24 2 hours ago, AlaskanTigersFan said: Officially throwing this out there: Tigers get: Mitch Keller K'Bryan Hayes David Bednar Thomas Harrington Pirates get: Rainer Lirizano Hamm Vierling (Not sure if we'd have to include Ty Madden to balance this out or not) Tigers get a #3 starter, a 3B (defense wins championships and he's the best defensive 3B in the game which will boost our starters drastically), a closer, and a top pitching prospect (Can probably be brought up in RP role for stretch run). Pirates get two premium position players, a strong SP prospect and a Utility player to use now. They keep in tact their future rotation of Skenes, Jones, Chandler, Barco (probably best four SP rotation in MLB in 2 years), Heaney with Hamm and another 20+ pitching prospects behind them (they are LOADED in pitching). Who says no? Drugs are a very bad thing Quote
AlaskanTigersFan Posted July 24 Author Posted July 24 Just found this site https://www.baseballtradevalues.com/trades I'm too cheap to spend the money for this. But one of the top trades listed in terms of value is: Tigers get:(40.7 point value) Brent Rooker Athletics get: (41.20 point value) Wenceel Perez Jace Jung Josue Briceno Ethan Scheifelbein I'd do this deal too. Cool site. Quote
AlaskanTigersFan Posted July 24 Author Posted July 24 2 minutes ago, SoCalTiger said: Drugs are a very bad thing Yes they are. Quote
Hongbit Posted July 24 Posted July 24 (edited) I want Suarez. He fits in perfectly as the RH power bat in the middle of the lineup. We’d also keep him from joining the Yankees or Mariners. He’d be a rental which should help his cost lower on the trade market even if there is a bidding war. I’m also not interested in giving up Clark, McG, Briceno, or Rainer for anyone. They have enough nice pieces in this deep farm to acquire a quality rental. Bednar is a close 1B for almost all the same reasons. Edited July 24 by Hongbit Quote
Hongbit Posted July 24 Posted July 24 1 hour ago, Tenacious D said: Rainer is our future SS, not McGonigle, who likely ends up at 2B. Yost is very far away and might eventually push Rainer to 3B. I’d put Bryce in the rare untouchable tier, with Clark and McGonigle. I feel the same way about Rainer. Untouchable now. He may be the best of all of the prospects. 4 Quote
casimir Posted July 24 Posted July 24 Anyone hear Stavenhagen on the Tiger Territory podcast? He threw out a name that no one has suggested. Fits the Hinch scheme of things as far as a good semi regular versatile bench piece. Can play multiple defensive positions, is a switch hitter that does well vs LHPs. Cheap contract. Plays within the division, if that’s a concern for a trade. And when he mentioned it, if you give it a bit of thought, he’s more right about it than you might want to believe. Willi Castro. Quote
Arlington Posted July 24 Posted July 24 2 hours ago, Tenacious D said: Rainer is our future SS, not McGonigle, who likely ends up at 2B. Yost is very far away and might eventually push Rainer to 3B. I’d put Bryce in the rare untouchable tier, with Clark and McGonigle. I concur 1 Quote
tiger2022 Posted July 24 Posted July 24 5 hours ago, RedTeamGo! said: Tigers Get: Nick Martinez Reds Get: Max Anderson Who says no? Why would the Reds do this? 2.5 games out of the wildcard. Matt McLain in his 2nd season at 2nd. It needs to make sense for the other team...just not a trade that helps the Tigers. Quote
tiger2022 Posted July 24 Posted July 24 2 hours ago, AlaskanTigersFan said: I think Bigbie is in the top 7 or 8 OF'rs for the Tigers Depth chart. But again, I want the Tigers to go after Kyle Tucker or someone like that in the OF. How are they going to get Kyle Tucker? Quote
tiger2022 Posted July 24 Posted July 24 2 hours ago, AlaskanTigersFan said: Just found this site https://www.baseballtradevalues.com/trades I'm too cheap to spend the money for this. But one of the top trades listed in terms of value is: Tigers get:(40.7 point value) Brent Rooker Athletics get: (41.20 point value) Wenceel Perez Jace Jung Josue Briceno Ethan Scheifelbein I'd do this deal too. Cool site. Why would the A's do this? 4 below average for an all star? How does it make sense for the A's since they just signed Rooker to a team friendly 4 year contract? Quote
AlaskanTigersFan Posted July 24 Author Posted July 24 6 minutes ago, tiger2022 said: Why would the A's do this? 4 below average for an all star? How does it make sense for the A's since they just signed Rooker to a team friendly 4 year contract? JC, do you spend any time whatsoever looking at Tigers prospects? Briceno would be the A's number 1 prospect right now if he was traded and Jung would be in their top 5 (if he was eligible). I'm pretty sure Schefelbein would be in their top 15...... That wasn't even my offer but it is a pretty fair offer in terms of value. Teams trade established players (usually) for multiple prospects that they can control for multiple years. This gives them three prospects/young players to build around and an immediate replacement with a league average replacement right away..... Not too shabby. The A's need pieces going forward..... Quote
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