2025-2026 Tigers Off Season Thread

[gehringer_2]

2 hours ago, Tiger337 said:

Let's say you take positional adjustment out if altogether and make WAR = OWAR + DRS.  That would be a stat which is totally based on what they do on the field.

I like that. For me it just goes back the idea that I find it nonsensical for an above average defender at any position to be considered as having cost his team runs/wins. That part is only a matter of the semantics of what the unit is called. If you are going to call it Wins above replacement, than no above average D player at any position should be rated as costing his team wins, because they didn't in any reasonable sense. He may not field like a SS, but his contribution was not negative. So if you call it something else that goes away. 😉

[Tiger337]

3 hours ago, gehringer_2 said:

I like that. For me it just goes back the idea that I find it nonsensical for an above average defender at any position to be considered as having cost his team runs/wins. That part is only a matter of the semantics of what the unit is called. If you are going to call it Wins above replacement, than no above average D player at any position should be rated as costing his team wins, because they didn't in any reasonable sense. He may not field like a SS, but his contribution was not negative. So if you call it something else that goes away. 😉

I would have been happy to just keeping fielding separate from hitting and not trying boil everything down to one number.  If you do want to arrive at one number for a player's value though, I do think you need to consider the position they play.  If a DH goes into the Hall of Fame or wins an MVP, he should have to hit better than his peer who plays a position.  

Edited 17 hours ago by Tiger337

[gehringer_2]

44 minutes ago, Tiger337 said:

I would have been happy to just keeping fielding separate from hitting and not trying boil everything down to one number.  If you do want to arrive at one number for a player's value though, I do think you need to consider the position they play.  If a DH goes into the Hall of Fame or wins an MVP, he should have to hit better than his peer who plays a position.  

no arg on that.

[Edman85]

Did Longenhagen's roster crunch post make it in here?

https://blogs.fangraphs.com/2025-american-league-40-man-roster-crunch-analysis/

Trevin Michael wasn't on my Rule 5 protection radar.

[4hzglory]

43 minutes ago, Edman85 said:

Did Longenhagen's roster crunch post make it in here?

https://blogs.fangraphs.com/2025-american-league-40-man-roster-crunch-analysis/

Trevin Michael wasn't on my Rule 5 protection radar.

Yeah, that doesn't make sense to me at all.  And the fact that he places Lee, likely a top 125-50 overall prospect who is 22 and played a full season at AAA behind Cruz is crazy to me.  I do think Cruz has a chance to be selected, but losing Lee for nothing would be significantly worse than losing Cruz for nothing IMO as Lee has a significantly higher offensive floor and upside than Cruz IMO.  Lee could still be part of a trade, but I think he absolutely needs to be protected if he isn't traded.

[Tiger337]

So, who wants to talk about Park Factors today?😃

[Edman85]

34 minutes ago, Tiger337 said:

So, who wants to talk about Park Factors today?😃

I am sad I missed out on a lot of the nitty gritty talk last week. I probably won't have much nerd time until after Christmas though 😀 

[Tiger337]

42 minutes ago, Edman85 said:

I am sad I missed out on a lot of the nitty gritty talk last week. I probably won't have much nerd time until after Christmas though 😀 

I don't have time either, but nerd time is a priority!

[chasfh]

WAR is replacement based and DRS is average based so that’s a mismatch. It would be closer to say WAA = oWAA + DRS. I dont know whether that would be the answer either. 

Edited 3 hours ago by chasfh

[Tiger337]

2 minutes ago, chasfh said:

WAR is replacement based and DRS is average based so that’s a mismatch. It would be closer to say WAA = oWAA + DRS. I dont know whether that would be the answer either. 

Average DRS is considered replacement level.  The reasoning is that a terrible hitter who can field his position at an average level is not hard to find.  If your starting player goes down with an injury, you can usually find a find a weak hitter who can field reasonably well.  

[gehringer_2]

53 minutes ago, Tiger337 said:

Average DRS is considered replacement level.  The reasoning is that a terrible hitter who can field his position at an average level is not hard to find.  If your starting player goes down with an injury, you can usually find a find a weak hitter who can field reasonably well.  

It's a funny thing though, it certainly is true that good fielders are a dime a dozen compared to good hitters, but just because that is true, we (well at least 'I'..😉) tend to think they should be more common than they are -- so I'm always a bit surprised when a minor leaguer with a weak bat or a utility guy gets called up and their glove is only mediocre at best. If you don't have a big bat and can't field how do you even get to AAA? 🤷‍♂️

[Tiger337]

2 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

It's a funny thing though, it certainly is true that good fielders are a dime a dozen compared to good hitters, but just because that is true, we (well at least 'I'..😉) tend to think they should be more common than they are -- so I'm always a bit surprised when a minor leaguer with a weak bat or a utility guy gets called up and their glove is only mediocre at best. If you don't have a big bat and can't field how do you even get to AAA? 🤷‍♂️

I think we may underestimate the difference between fielding in the majors and minors.  When I see minor league games, I notice the difference in fielding between majors and minors as as much as I notice the hitting and pitching differences.  It's a whole different game in the majors.   

[chasfh]

3 hours ago, Tiger337 said:

Average DRS is considered replacement level.  The reasoning is that a terrible hitter who can field his position at an average level is not hard to find.  If your starting player goes down with an injury, you can usually find a find a weak hitter who can field reasonably well.  

I did not realize that. OK. If they could spool that out to tenth of a point, I could see it being paired with something like oRAR to arrive at something close to what I'm looking for. There may be some fatal flaw in this but I'm probably done thinking about this topic for a while.

[chasfh]

2 hours ago, Tiger337 said:

I think we may underestimate the difference between fielding in the majors and minors.  When I see minor league games, I notice the difference in fielding between majors and minors as as much as I notice the hitting and pitching differences.  It's a whole different game in the majors.   

I think you're right on this although I would bet that average minor league fielders are a lot closer to average major league fielders than average minor league hitters are to average major league hitters.