Larkin wants out?

[Hongbit]

I don’t see Dylan being able to keep his mouth shut while public opinion goes scorched earth on him.   I give him less than 2 weeks before he’s on Brad Galli’s new YouTube show sharing his thoughts about Stevie and the Yzerplan.  

[NorthWoods]

12 minutes ago, Hongbit said:

I don’t see Dylan being able to keep his mouth shut while public opinion goes scorched earth on him.   I give him less than 2 weeks before he’s on Brad Galli’s new YouTube show sharing his thoughts about Stevie and the Yzerplan.  

Probably a factor of my age but I can't see Dylan Larkin winning a PR war in Detroit with THE Captain, Steve Yzerman.    Ongoing failure of the Yzerplan or not, Stevie actually accomplished something in his playing career.

[Hongbit]

5 minutes ago, NorthWoods said:

Probably a factor of my age but I can't see Dylan Larkin winning a PR war in Detroit with THE Captain, Steve Yzerman.    Ongoing failure of the Yzerplan or not, Stevie actually accomplished something in his playing career.

I agree but that won’t stop him from trying.  

[Hongbit]

Sucks they can’t just trade him to Edmonton.   That would be the ultimate fu. 

[buddha]

"i want out to go try to win a stanley cup" is one thing.  "i want out to go play with my friends" is quite another.

he's only 30.  and a captain.  You signed the contract.

i get the player movement stuff and wanting to play somewhere else in your career.  i get all that.  but to DEMAND a trade and then give a tiny little list of teams you would accept to be traded?  screw you.  look, we'll work with you and everyone to try to get you somewhere you want to go, but if you really want out you have to bend a little.

[gehringer_2]

It's a situation with more than the usual amount of interpersonal baggage. After all, it was Yzerman that hand picked Larkin for the 'C', Dylan was his guy, and now five years later it's Larkin saying he doesn't want to play for him and/or he's lost faith in Yzerman's ability to put a winner on the ice. So sure, Yzerman should be unhappy. But OTOH, he knows what he probably 'promised' Larkin in terms of where the team was going when he negotiated Larkin's deal and no question the team has not delivered its end, so he's got to look in the mirror a little as well.

In the end, it's not in either side's interests not to try to get something done and move on at a profit. The big decision for Yzerman, and maybe Ilitch, is where do you want to go given the change in situation? Are you going to deal for youth/pics and extend the rebuild hoping to reach real SC viability, or is it just 'get into the playoffs' desperation time - take whatever deal can produce an immediate 10 more points than last season.

Edited Monday at 08:12 PM by gehringer_2

[gehringer_2]

32 minutes ago, buddha said:

but if you really want out you have to bend a little.

and we don't have anything but a leak that was probably planted with an agenda on that topic so who really knows? I think the Wings don't have much choice though - if he sits out, they're going to be a worse team than this year, which is unacceptable, if he doesn't sit out, you've got Vancouver, - with Mclelland trying to manage a locker room possibly split down the middle? - even worse.

Edited Monday at 08:20 PM by gehringer_2

[NorthWoods]

1 hour ago, gehringer_2 said:

 Are you going to deal for youth/pics and extend the rebuild hoping to reach real SC viability, or is it just 'get into the playoffs' desperation time - take whatever deal can produce an immediate 10 more points than last season.

The best would be a young player to align with the Seider/Raymond timeline along with more.

The worst would be make the playoffs now, but I still trust the Captain's judgement.

[Jason_R]

1 hour ago, gehringer_2 said:

and we don't have anything but a leak that was probably planted with an agenda on that topic so who really knows? I think the Wings don't have much choice though - if he sits out, they're going to be a worse team than this year, which is unacceptable, if he doesn't sit out, you've got Vancouver, - with Mclelland trying to manage a locker room possibly split down the middle? - even worse.

We now have two leaks. The first one was the trade request. The second one is the short list of preferred destinations. I do not see how it is in Larkin’s interest for his team to have leaked either. Maybe others disagree with me and maybe his team really did do the leaking. But in both cases, the obvious impact of the leaks is to make it harder for Detroit to achieve Larkin’s desired outcome. It seems unnecessarily antagonistic for Larkin or his agent to have leaked either of these stories. But if they did leak one or both of these stories, that is an indication that the situation is way more toxic than it even seems.

If it is that toxic, it would not surprise me at all to see Stevie tell Larkin that if he doesn’t like whatever deal gets made, he will be free to play for his contract without the C and in a locker room that now sees him as a traitor, or to sit out and not get paid. 

anyway, there are probably half a dozen and maybe even a dozen teams that could have a realistic hope of reaching the conference finals if they added a guy like Larkin. If Larkin refuses to accept a trade to one of them, Stevie will pull out the dagger. “Are you telling me you don’t think you are good enough to put that team over the hump? Are you telling me that you think you are only good enough to make a playoff run if you are riding the coattails of a team that is already good enough to make it to the finals? that’s why you failed as captain.”

Edited Monday at 09:44 PM by Jason_R

[Hongbit]

There are still a few very important things that we don’t know.  This request seemed to come out of  nowhere.    Did Stevie tell Dylan they were removing his C?  If so, that changes things.  He signed the contract to be the Captain.  Removing it only makes him look like the scapegoat to their losing seasons as if his leadership was the problem.   It changes a big part of the cause of the story. 

The other part is the 3 team list.  Does that represent a preferred list where a trade can be made without having to ask him. Is he open to other locations but would need to run it by him first and he could refuse.   Or is this an FU, I hold all the cards move.   It’s not uncommon for an athlete to have this set up in a no movement clause.   This seems like an important nuance that could be easily missed or ignored in the reporting of the story.   

I have no idea if either of these things happened or not.  It’s possible they didn’t and Larkin is being a soft diva bitch.   I am willing to give him the benefit of the doubt until more information surfaces.  

[Jason_R]

2 minutes ago, Hongbit said:

There are still a few very important things that we don’t know.  This request seemed to come out of  nowhere.    Did Stevie tell Dylan they were removing his C?  If so, that changes things.  He signed the contract to be the Captain.  Removing it only makes him look like the scapegoat to their losing seasons as if his leadership was the problem.   It changes a big part of the cause of the story. 

The other part is the 3 team list.  Does that represent a preferred list where a trade can be made without having to ask him. Is he open to other locations but would need to run it by him first and he could refuse.   Or is this an FU, I hold all the cards move.   It’s not uncommon for an athlete to have this set up in a no movement clause.   This seems like an important nuance that could be easily missed or ignored in the reporting of the story.   

I have no idea if either of these things happened or not.  It’s possible they didn’t and Larkin is being a soft diva bitch.   I am willing to give him the benefit of the doubt until more information surfaces.  

I think it makes sense that some talk occurred about whether Larkin should retain the C. I can see Larkin saying if you don’t think I’m doing a good job as C, trade me. 

[gehringer_2]

1 hour ago, Jason_R said:

anyway, there are probably half a dozen and maybe even a dozen teams that could have a realistic hope of reaching the conference finals if they added a guy like Larkin. If Larkin refuses to accept a trade to one of them, Stevie will pull out the dagger. “Are you telling me you don’t think you are good enough to put that team over the hump? Are you telling me that you think you are only good enough to make a playoff run if you are riding the coattails of a team that is already good enough to make it to the finals? that’s why you failed as captain.”

I think this is a bit more more melodramatic than it would actually get. People mostly talk to each other that way in film or on line - not so much in real life. Besides, I doubt if Larkin quakes over the possibility of Steve Yzerman trying to break his self confidence and I doubt Yzerman would any point in trying. Not to mention If Larkin wants to insult Yzerman he's got plenty of fodder over the progress of the team "you were only as good as your assistant GM in Tampa" etc. 😄.  That's what a screenwriter would come up with anyway. . But that kind of pissing match between two grown ass men would be a pretty juvenile exercise. Not to mention that if it's really strained the communication is going to be via the agent anyway. 

Back in the real world the point about the leaks not being in the Larkin camp interest is a solid one, and from what I understand his agent is generally known as a pretty discreet guy. So either it came from the team, or Dylan himself was dumb enough to talk to St.James without his agent's knowledge. 

[Jason_R]

In real life people will say anything to get what they want in a negotiation. If Stevie strikes a good deal with a mere contender and Larkin tries to hold out for a recent Stanley Cup winner, I can easily see Stevie insinuating that Larkin is afraid of betting on himself. 

[Jason_R]

 

[gehringer_2]

8 minutes ago, Jason_R said:

In real life people will say anything to get what they want in a negotiation. If Stevie strikes a good deal with a mere contender and Larkin tries to hold out for a recent Stanley Cup winner, I can easily see Stevie insinuating that Larkin is afraid of betting on himself. 

Larking is a multimillionaire with expensive legal and business management in front of him. He's not going to fall over on a dare from a famous ex-Jock, any more than Yzerman is going to do something just to spite Larkin that's going to hurt the billion dollar business he is responsible for. In modern sports in the end the money is the voice in the room that gets listened to. 😟

Edited yesterday at 12:16 AM by gehringer_2

[buddha]

There's a lot of pop psychology and speculation going on here...

i guess that's what we do best.

[lordstanley]

T

2 hours ago, gehringer_2 said:

 Not to mention If Larkin wants to insult Yzerman he's got plenty of fodder over the progress of the team "you were only as good as your assistant GM in Tampa" etc. 😄. 

"Pfft, no big deal to score 155 points in 1989, all those lousy stand-up goalies with skinny pads".

[Jason_R]

What is a message board for other than speculating?

[gehringer_2]

41 minutes ago, buddha said:

There's a lot of pop psychology and speculation going on here...

i guess that's what we do best.

I think Hongbits's speculation that Yzerman wanted to remove his "C" is an interesting take. Of course we have zero data, but it's one of those ideas that make other things fall into a more orderly progression. 

And you wonder how the locker room would feel about that - plus? minus? Who know?. TBH, I've always thought it a little odd that the Wings coach  didn't pick his captain. Not that Larkin wouldn't have been the obvious choice at the time, but the fact that the "C" was bestowed by the FO rather than the HC struck me as odd even at the time.

Along the same line, maybe McLelland wanted no captain because he thought the team needed to develop broader leadership and it wasn't happening and the whole message turned into something toxic by the time it got to Larkin. Mc has talked about the team not having enough other sources of leadership a lot. A ton of possibilities we'll no doubt never find out about.   🤔

[buddha]

The most obvious answer is that larkin wants to play with his buddies and he wants to win a stanley cup.  he doesnt see either happening in detroit any time soon so he asks to be traded.

[gehringer_2]

18 minutes ago, Jason_R said:

What is a message board for other than speculating?

I think fans think a lot more about how much a player cares about his 'legacy' somewhere than a player does. All that 'legacy' plus $5 gets him a Vente. Also a clarification to the story above: It may have been years in Det before Yzerman got a cup, but he was in the playoffs almost every year from his rookie season and they got to the conference finals by his 4th year. His team was regularly getting their shot, so no comparable level of futility.

Edited yesterday at 01:46 AM by gehringer_2

[gehringer_2]

12 minutes ago, buddha said:

The most obvious answer is that larkin wants to play with his buddies and he wants to win a stanley cup.  he doesnt see either happening in detroit any time soon so he asks to be traded.

after playing in the Worlds and then the Olympics he got a taste of how the other side lives. 

And maybe there is more to team building than just talent level. I think Tyler Bertuzzi had pretty much warn out his welcome after Covid, yet once he left this team never seemed to have the same heart. This team is an assemblage of players with almost no 'light a fire" guys. Maybe larks woke up at some point and realized he  doesn't like his own team that much anymore, I wouldn't. 🤷‍♂️

Edited yesterday at 01:55 AM by gehringer_2

[buddha]

11 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

I think fans think a lot more about how much a player cares about his 'legacy' somewhere than a player does. All that 'legacy' plus $5 gets him a Vente. Also a clarification to the story above: It may have been years in Det before Yzerman got a cup, but he was in the playoffs almost every year from his rookie season and they got to the conference finals by his 4th year. His team was regularly getting their shot, so no comparable level of futility.

legacy means more when they get older and see that they wont be young and invincible forever.  larkin still isnt that old.  also, some players have different priorities, some are wiser than others, and some are dumb.  i dont where larkin fits.

also, yzerman made all those playoffs early in his career when only the last place team missed out.  and he played in the norris division when it was probably the worst division in hockey in the 80s.  not to discredit stevie, he was the best player on those teams by far and one of the best offensive players in the league, but the rest of the team other than maybe gallant and ogrodnick for a while and then probert, was largely ****.

[gehringer_2]

9 minutes ago, buddha said:

yzerman made all those playoffs early in his career when only the last place team missed out. 

No doubt - but he was  still getting a chance - and the chance matters to how you feel about your prospects on a season. 

I say up front have no idea if he actually thinks this, but if *I* were Dylan Larkin, aside from missing the playoffs I would be pretty totally pissed of that I'd been playing for 10 yrs on a team that let me get regularly run at and sat on their hands. Personally, I don't know how that could not get under a skill player's skin after a while. Maybe it never did, but like I said, I'd be fed up with it.

Edited yesterday at 02:02 AM by gehringer_2

[Jason_R]

18 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

I think fans think a lot more about how much a player cares about his 'legacy' somewhere than a player does. All that 'legacy' plus $5 gets him a Vente. Also a clarification to the story above: It may have been years in Det before Yzerman got a cup, but he was in the playoffs almost every year from his rookie season and they got to the conference finals by his 4th year. His team was regularly getting their shot, so no comparable level of futility.

Athletes with a legacy ride it forever. Stevie is the GM. Draper, Lidstrom, and others are in the front office. Ozzy and Larry Murphy have TV gigs. If Darren McCarty still drank, would he ever buy a beer again in Detroit? Never. 

The more I think about it, the more it seems to me that Larkin just had an epic crash out. He’ll always regret it. It’s hard to watch.