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By this logic, moderates/independents that are currently undecided despite knowing what Trump is, obviously are going to vote for Trump anyway so what's the point debating what if he becomes president again because he's got it in the bag then. The judge basically grabbed a number out of the air. Despite what 1984 says, he wasn't convicted on 20 years worth of loans although I do believe they tried (and maybe succeeded) in showing he had done it as a pattern. IIRC, they focused on several more recent transactions which he could still be pursued against. You're right, but it wouldn't necessarily mean that it's the right thing to do. Speaking of crimes, Biden committed the same crime as Trump in regards to documents, but just like you say, Dems make excuses and the same republicans that made excuses for Trump, want to see Biden prosecuted.

I'm not, he was guilty and he should be punished, I've said that multiple times. Just admit he's guilty of something no one else would have charged with and the penalty for that specific crime was exorbitant. I get it 'couldn't have happened to a nicer guy', so i'm not expecting sympathy, nor am I giving him any. As Romad pointed out though, i'd much prefer if undecided folks, in the little news they take in, were getting news on the documents case, j6, or his GA case (and not the side show with Willis), and not this which I fear could make undecided voters apothetic.

When you're on a road by yourself driving 15 mph over the speed limit and no cop sees you, but years later someone shows up because they decided to check every traffic cam and look specifically for you and found you driving 15mph over the speed limit, yes you're still guilty, but you were also targeted. And again, what is a penalty for parking in the fire lane? Is it twice the value of the car you parked in that fire lane? 400 million is 'ill-gotten' gains, laughable. Again, 232 million dollar loan and there is no evidence that he ended up with a better interest rate as a result as Deutsche Bank said they questioned/pushed back, and negotiated an interest rate that both agreed too.

Absolutely it does and that's why i'm not saying trump isn't guilty and shouldn't be punished, just 400 million...c'mon. Again to my concerns about undecided folks getting apathetic, should billionaires legally get hundreds of millions from the public which just inflates their net worth? If you could choose scenario 1 or 2 for your city, which one would you choose? 1) Tom Gores over inflates his net worth in the hopes of securing the best possible interest rate on 200 million he plans on investing into projects in Detroit. Citibank, where he got the loan, pushed back on his claims but eventually came to an agreement with him on the loan figures. Gores pays his loan back per the terms of the loan and uses that money on his investments. 2) Tom Gores decides the Pistons should have their own arena and after threating to leave Detroit, Detroit gives them 500 million towards it. The Pistons stay and Gores now has an additional revenue stream in a new arena and doesn't have to share revenue with the Illitches.

C'mon, i'm asking you to look at this specific thing he was found guilty of, not him as a person overall. https://fortune.com/2023/10/12/trump-disputed-financial-statements-key-approval-232m-loans-lender-haircuts-deutsche-bank-official/ 232 million in loans, which he paid back, but oh no, Deutsche Bank (with their knowledge about over valuation and consent) gave them lower rates. And the penalty for that....400 million!?!?! If you believe this case would have been pursued if their wasn't a political reason, you're simply wrong. Meanwhile, independents or rather undecideds, who don't consume nearly the same amount of news as everyone here, could look at that as political corruption and my concern is some may get sympathetic to Trump over it. The Illitches got the DDA to 'own' LCA and use over 300m in public subsidies which also gives them tax benefits on their District Detroit businesses/properties along with a free 35 year lease for the arena, which just means they use it for free and when it's time to replace, it's the DDA's issue to deal with. But democrats worked with Illitch to do it, so while you hear a little bit of grumbling about it from democrats, no one pushes it. Crazy thing is that is actually legal. My concern is undecided folks will see Trump getting fined 400 million because Deutsche Bank (with their consent) lowered their ROI to give Trump a loan at a slightly lower rate and think of ways billionaires get public money legally and be sympathetic or possibly just as worse, apathetic.

This goes back to what I said to Sue, while you're right he has scammed people his entire life, do you believe our government should be able to railroad someone because they either haven't tried to convict them in the past or haven't been able to convict them?

Your not wrong Chuck, but again, we're talking 1/2 billion dollar fine over something that was politically motivated. And calling Deutsce Bank a victim here, haha. Again, I do find it funny because I despise Trump, but it was an over the top settlement for this specific case. (Mind you I'd be perfectly all right with him being hung if he's found guilty of insurrection).

I'm not defending Trump in any way and I've heard and believe many of these stories like you have. Unfortunately democrats and republicans at local/state/fed level ensure that people with wealth and power can get away with this type of stuff. In fact i'd prefer that independents hear those stories which caused real loss for real people. All i'm saying is my fear is that they hear about no real loss for a big bank and question it.

You are absolutely correct, but did you ever imagine a world where big banks that weren't even bringing a case against a client, would be 100% democratically supported by the government going after their clients on their behalf? Heck even Elizabeth Warren is on board with the government working proactively for Deutsche Bank.

In terms of this case, I suspect and hope you're right. But again, no one actually lost money here. If you sued someone because you were defrauded out of money, I certainly hope you would get the money if it was awarded to you. But if you sued on a technicality and never experienced any loss and then were gloating daily and pointing out how much interest you're making from the delay, I don't think you'd have 100% independent support.

It certainly doesn't look good on his 'i'm so rich' persona he plays out to his supporters, but that's a cult and when it suits them, they'll be able to buy into more nuanced thinking (nice to know it's possible still) and understand only a dumb billionaire would have 400-500 million available on a quick notice. I can't see this playing out with independents either, but you have government backing up the banks (which didn't even ask for it) on one side. Not the easiest side to defend for most independents i'd gather.

It is fun, but I just don't hope this doesn't backfire. 1/2 billion dollars when he technically defrauded a bank but never actually went into default. I get it's Trump and **** him, but I just hope independents don't look at it as government overreach and sympathize.

We're going to survive regardless, but your point stands in terms of getting back towards a normal. If Trump was 10 years younger and not looking stupid old himself, i'd be more concerned, but he won't be around long, rather he wins or not. The republican party is already destroying themselves. A Trump win only temporarily delays it.

I was looking at expected contracts for several players yesterday and swore I saw Fuller at around 14 million per year for 2-3 years. Just went back and confirmed that was correct, but it noted only about 17 million guaranteed. He could potentially be getting close to the same in guaranteed money and still have a chance at another decent contract at age 32.

Most of those years were the pre-Burfict years to be fair.

Agreed, my 'stupid or silly' comment was directed at the circumstances, not Biden. It's ridiculous that we're at a point where being 'stupid or silly' is actually sound advice...yet here we are.

I'm suddenly a lot more comfortable with Biden if he goes this route. It's stupid and silly, thus it fits perfectly for Trump and his voters.

The only partial defense I can make on this is that it's so ridiculous, it's probably good for them to strike it down. That said, that's a reach. Even with that, you'd think they could have fast tracked it a bit. With this case , this is where democrats need to act like republicans a bit. Jack Smith should be openly stating now that he will pursue this case as quickly as possible and state the DOJ 'rules' do not apply as he started the process well before the election and it was not his delays that kept it into the run up to the election.

That's fantastic. On a side note, I saw Liam putting out some hints at a reunion just last week, but again, doing it through social media rather than just calling Noel.

Per the news article I read on this, this has been viral for a month and it sounds like it just knocked Beyonce off of the top of the country charts. Impressive voice.

Best thing that could happen to him long term. Still don't understand why he chose to run now.

"Pfife, I apologize to you that I besmirched the good name of PBS" - What's wrong with that apology?

Pfife, I apologize to you that I besmirched the good name of PBS. Based on my past experiences with you I should have known you could not take the joke and you'd be an ass about it....and that is entirely my fault.

It was a joke, I'm not going to apologize because you can't recognize that.

That is true, but Hamas also wanted insight in to what that would mean after the hostages are back and were given nothing. Cease fire for a few days and it starts all over again? I'm not saying it'll work, but if it comes with world backing that Israel leaves Gaza, presumably for good, that might change their opinion. With Netanyahu in charge, it's a moot point anyway as he would never agree to that.