Mr.TaterSalad

A right wing nut, with Bibi's backing, literally murdered Rabin because of his peace offerings towards the Palestinians.

This Vox article does as good a job as any that I've seen outlining what a reasonably appropriate, self defense response could be. One that works to respond to the threat of Hamas and limit civilian casualties. I'm no military expert and have never even so much as served our country, much less been a general, mapping out battle plans and a tactical effort. From the reading and research I have done, Vox article and otherwise, there are a few things that could be done differently. Not propping up Hamas with Qatari money and financing them as Netanyahu did in the years leading up to the situation is one thing. But I digress from that point. Not cutting off water and electricity to millions of people in Gaza would be another thing I wouldn't have done. Taking a more tactical approach, whatever that really looks like, and going more after Hamas leadership, funding, and weaponry than engaging in an all out, block by block assault on Gaza is yet another. I wouldn't have told people to go southern Gaza to seek refuge, only to then begin to shell and assault southern portions of Gaza. I would have also made sure I had Egypt on board, in some capacity, to take in some amount of refugees. How you get them on board, I'm not certain, but I would guess there is a financial price that could be paid by Israel and it's allies to do so. I'm ignorant though on the issues of war and tactical battle planning. I just know what I've read and researched. So I hold complete space that I could be naive and flat out wrong here.

I think a Yitzhak Rabin or a more mild-mannered leader, Labor or otherwise, would have handled this war differently and may not have acted with the unrestrained aggression that Bibi's IDF has acted with. Well, Sharon as a former military general, may have acted as aggressive as Bibi has. I don't think a different leader would use this war as a political, PR prop to keep themselves in power and rally support behind them. They also may not have funneled Qatari money to prop up Hamas in the first place as Netanyahu did. Netanyahu needs Hamas as a foil and political fodder to deflect from his authoritarian tendencies and from his attempted judicial coup. I don't think Meir, Rabin, Sharon, Peres, etc. would have propped Hamas up so they could look like a tough guy and use them as a political fodder the way Bibi has. None of those aforementioned Prime Ministers even attempted a judicial coup to install themselves as dictator of Israel and avoid criminal prosecution the way Bibi did either.

We don't talk about that. We don't talk about Qatari money that he allowed, and encouraged, to come through Israel and be funneled to Hamas.

They were a failed judicial coup away from being a dictatorship under Bibi. So if it's not an outright dictatorship, it's a democracy on life support. We'll see if Bibi resigns if the Likud coalition loses its majority. And in any case, I don't feel good about my tax dollars going up prop up a wannabe dictator whose the Isreali version of the man in your avatar photo.

I don't hold feel I hold Isreal to a higher standard. I have condemned on numerous occasions what Hamas did. Hell, I even believe Isreal has a right to respond and defend itself. I do have an issue though providing munitions and military aid to dictatorships in any country, be it Israel or Palestine. I'd prefer my tax dollars not help, in any way, shape, or form, prop up a dictatorship and an authoritarian leader using a war for his own PR and political gain. And yes, Netanyahu is an authoritarian and a wannabe dictator.

Of course I'd like for Hamas to surrender and for hostages to be released. I very well recognize who the aggressor is in this situation. Honest questions for you, all BS and hyperbole aside. Does proportionality of civilian deaths matter to you? Do you believe Israel has a right to do whatever it wants in response to October 7th, without regard to the mounting civilian death toll? Is there no line Israel can also cross? You know it is possible to hold space for believing that both what Hamas did was brutal and wrong, while also believing Israel response is getting out of hand itself and worsening a humanitarian crisis.

So how high does the death toll have to rise before you believe is enough is enough? And if there is no line for you that can be crossed, why not just use a nuclear weapon on Gaza? Nuking Gaza would be much faster if you don't have any regard for the civilian death toll.

I'm going to parse out my answers and responses below. What do I think Biden does? I think he, his administration, and Congress advocate for and send, unconditioned military aid to Israel for not only the Iron Dome missile defense system, but also for things like F-35 fighter jets, direct weapons and munitions. They send this aid to a to a corrupt, undemocratic, fascistic Israeli government lead by a to a corrupt, undemocratic, fascistic man in Benjamin Netanyahu. I think by sending military aid to Netanyahu's government he is not only supporting Bibi's war effort, but in part, also supporting Bibi's PR campaign to wage this war, make himself look good, and keep himself in power as dictator of Israel. Netanyahu is using this war to try and make himself look like a hero and to deflect from all of his legal problems, alleged criminality, and all of the civil unrest we saw prior to October 7th. The longer this war drags on the less attention paid to Netanyahu's legal issues and alleged criminality it seems. This Council on Foreign Relations report gives a fairly good breakdown of the military aid we send to Netanyahu's corrupt, undemocratic, fascistic Israeli government. I think his administration, and those before it, also potentially violate the so-called Leahy Law in the United States. Vox has a good explanation of the Leahy Law and why the US may be in violation of its own law. The Leahy Law is supposed to be used to ensure countries that receive aid and military aid from the US aren't using that aid to violate the human rights of others nor international law. Thanks to multiple, credible reports, from various agencies we already know that Israel is/was operating as an apartheid state with its treatment of people in Gaza and the West Bank prior to October 7th. Apartheid is a gross abuse of human rights and a violation of international law. It's not his ****ing war. He didn't start it. He's not fighting it. It is certainly true that he didn't start this war and that Hamas did and Israel responded. There have been broader historical factors at play that are far beyond and were well before Joe Biden's presidency and it is not fair at all to act as if he started it. In some small part though, it is a war he has chosen to get involved in it with the direct sale of munitions and supply of unconditioned military aid. So while it is not "his war", his administration and congress decided to involve themselves with direct arms sales and military aid to a corrupt, undemocratic, fascistic Israel government lead by Netanyahu. You act like he's wanting all of this to happen and finally changed his mind because 10,000 people said something to him. I certainly don't think Biden wanted any of this to happen. I would venture to guess most on the left don't either. But wanting it to happen and supporting it while it is happening are two different conversations we need to have. When this war started and through its first few months (November, December, January) the Biden Administration opposed a permanent ceasefire and even fought against it in the United Nations. They also opposed conditioning military aid or restricting it in any way. It seems to me, and maybe I am wrong here, that after months of mounting political pressure he is changing his tune. Political pressure coming from Arab-Americans, Muslim-Americans, the left in his own party, combined with a rising death toll in Gaza and a humanitarian disaster, has made Biden has come around to the idea of both conditioning military aid and having a permanent ceasefire adopted. This is a very good thing. Conditioning military aid and pausing the fighting is something many have wanted for months. Now, you can say that Hamas may well just violate a ceasefire resolution, making it a one-sided affair that only Israel holds itself too. That may end up being the case and **** Hamas for doing so. We will see if a negotiated ceasefire ends up in place next week as is rumored and if Hamas bothers to stick with it. Another point that I want to make is regarding our special relationship with Israel and the unwavering support we give to a country led by a man who is corrupt, undemocratic, fascistic man in Benjamin Netanyahu. There are few other dictatorial and authoritarian regimes and political parties that we would support in the way we support Benjamin Netanyahu and his Likud government. We don't support Hamas and the PLO in this wat in Palestine. We don't support Vladimir Putin this way in Russia. We don't support Aleksandr Lukashenko or Viktor Orban this way in Belarus or Hungary. Yet even when Benjamin Netanyahu uses his own countries judicial system to stage a coup we still have Democratic politicians in this country, like Joe Biden or Haley Stevens, falling all over themselves and trumpeting our special relationship with Israel. There is no other authoritarian, fascistic regime in this world that we would consider a special ally like we do Israel. Like it or not, admit it or not, right now, Israel is being led by a wannabe dictator and a wannabe fascist. Netanyahu is not Golda Meir, Yitzhak Rabin, nor Ariel Sharon. He is a corrupt man, with authoritarian tendencies, who was and still is actively trying to overthrow democracy in Israel to avoid criminal prosecution and keep himself in power for life. To pretend that the Israel of today that we are providing aid to and working with is the same Israel that Bill Clinton worked side-by-side with when Yitzhak Rabin was its Prime Minister or Jimmy Carter worked with when Menachem Begin was leading the nation is foolish. Benjamin Netanyahu is a bad leader and a bad man. The Israel of today is not the Israel we negotiated with and worked with over the past 6-7 decades. It is today a nation slipping more towards Hungary and Belarus than it is a free, fair democracy. What he is doing there sounds a heckuva a lot like what Donald Trump attempted here. I wouldn't want my tax dollars doing to aid Trump in a PR war that he was actively using to prop himself up politically and keep himself in power. I sure don't want them going to prop up Trump's just as corrupt, just as dictatorial counterpart in Israel in Netanyahu. Were Israel led by a decent person like Rabin or Sharon, I'd feel a lot better about supporting them. But they are not, they are led by a man whose trying to make himself Israel last Prime Minister and first dictator.

This is likely a sign that the political pressure is working and that watching a mounting death toll has probably weighed on him personally. Good to see it.

So does that mean no on a player like Chris Tanev?

This is a fair and valid point. Frankly one I agree with. I do condemn the brutal, barbaric acts of Hamas and so too should anyone, anywhere, on any side of the political spectrum. I think the Palestinian people should use non-violence to achieve their nation state and to achieve equity. I do condemn anyone who wishes to wipe Israel and the Jewish people off the map. But until only recently, among many nations in the west, criticism of Israel and settler violence has been tepid and criticism of Palestinians has been much more fervent. Do I wish Israel was being led by a good and decent man like the late Yitzhak Rabin at a moment like this. Hell yes I do. I think the conflict would be in a far better space than where we are at today. I'd also feel morally better about my country support a Rabin-led, Labor Party government with aid as well. But that simply isn't the case. Israel is now being led by a wannabe dictator, who spits in the face of a leader like Rabin. In-fact, Rabin wasn't hardline enough for the right-wing of Israel and so one of their militants assassinated the man for not being militant enough towards the Palestinians. And Netanyahu is a cooperator and complicit in Rabin being murdered in the first place.

This simply isn't true. The military aid that we have given, up to this point, has had almost no conditions placed upon it. Even as Netanyahu is out there saying that Israel has the right to control from the river to the sea. Even as he has come out and explicitly said time and again Palestinians have no right to statehood or personhood as a Palestinian people. Whether it be money for the iron dome or direct military aid to use on weaponry, munitions, or transportation, that aid has had little in the way of condition placed upon it. That means has for the most part been, unconditional support. Furthermore, even with a corrupt dictator-lite in power like Bibi, we have US politicians running around (in Israel no less) talking about how they are our special ally and how we need to cherish the Israeli democracy. What democracy exactly are we cherishing? The one that Netanyahu is actively trying to overthrow? Would you want an elected leader of another parliament running around the US saying we have a special relationship with Trump as his MAGA supporters are storming the capital?

You missed the point completely but I know you did so on purpose. By giving unconditioned military aid to the Netanyahu government you are supporting Netanyahu unconditionally. You are supporting him regardless of his attempts to overthrow democracy in Israel and turn that country into a dictatorship. Which is what he was trying to do prior to October 7th and is still in all likelihood, trying to do now. He is the Israeli version of Donald Trump. The man has autocratic and fascist tendencies. He wants to be Israel's dictator and that is not really up for debate amongst most honest people who support democratic values and democracy. But ok, let's play the game you want to. If people gathered at a synagogue in Southfield and said we're going to develop a plan to take over the eastside of Dearborn, and then marched into that area of Dearborn with guns, and told people they have 72 hours to vacate their homes or face violence or death, I'd be pretty pissed about that too. Just as I am upset about what happened on October 7th. Israeli settlers have been marching in and encroaching upon their Palestinian neighbors for decades and killing hundreds of them. Consider this report from the UN from just last year. The United Nations Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs (OCHA) reported, from January to September 2023, Israeli settlers and forces killed 189 Palestinians in the occupied West Bank and wounded 8,192. The UNOCHA said on average, there are 3 cases of settlers attacking Palestinians in the West Bank of the Jordan River every single day, resulting in the killing and injuring of Palestinians, harming their property, and preventing them from reaching their land, workplace, family, and friends. This doesn't justify October 7th in any way, shape or form, but merely points out the settler violence that Netanyahu has continued to allow and not condemn on the Israeli side of this horrible conflict.

If the shoe was on the other foot, and we suffered a major terrorist attack while Trump was President, would you want a country, Israel or otherwise, to give Trump unconditional military aid and allow Trump to operate with little restraint or without a ceasefire in place? I would guess that most here would not want Trump to have unconditional military support, nor would they want to allow him to operate militarily with minimal restraint. Furthermore, would the decent-minded, non-right wing people of that country giving us the unconditioned aid want their tax dollars going to support a man like Trump? I bet they wouldn't. So why the double standard for Netanyahu? We know full well that Bibi is the Jewish/Israeli version of Donald Trump. He is a crook, a conman, a liar, a narcissist, a racist, and a wannabe dictator. He is a dangerous man, who posses the same direct threat to democracy as Trump does in this country. The man tried to hijack his nation's high court and singlehandedly change its judicial system to avoid prosecution and keep himself and the Likud in power as if he was the dictator of Isreal. Centrists and center-left types who oppose Trump would be going bananas in this country if Trump attempted that same maneuver that Bibi did in his judicial system. And rightfully so I might add. But when it comes to Bibi, you have the centrists and center-left falling all over themselves, talking about what a special relationship we have with Israel. And how we love her and support her unconditionally. WTF, Netanyahu is almost a mirror image of Trump. Why the heck would we support a woefully corrupt, jackboot thug and wannabe dictator like that with unconditional love, support, and military aid. This is the guy whom we consider our most cherished ally and have a special relationship with? If we're willing to support Netanyahu and his Likud government in this way than why not support Viktor Orban or Alexander Lukashenko too? What's the difference between a Bibi and those two? You can, and must, condemn the brutal and barbaric terrorist attacks carried out by Hamas on October 7th. You can, and you must, condemn any use of human shields, bunkers under hospitals/schools/residential areas, weapons caches near homes and in mosques. But for god sakes, you can condemn all of that without supporting Bibi unconditionally and intern, supporting the Likud Party in the same way.

I went through it too in my 20s. I voted for Ron Paul in two different primaries, read Mises Institute publications and Milton Friedman, the whole bit. Another question to ask, what do people think the percentage of Michigan voters will be that vote uncommitted on Tuesday?

Would you want to take on Boston in the first round lol? Maybe that could be to our benefit, who knows.

I think I largely agree with what you are saying here. Assuming our young core currently in the NHL and those waiting in the wings (no pun) to come up keep developing as we hope they do, we will be set to be the future of the Eastern Conference, whereas teams like Tampa Bay represent its past success. I do agree with you that the Devils, and also likely the Rangers, are the teams we will be competing with heavily over the next 3-4 seasons for the East, as other, older rosters, continue to decline. Florida has a middle of the pack roster and core when it comes to the age of their team, but I don't fear Florida as some juggernaut the way I fear Boston or feared Tampa Bay in years past. Florida has a nice roster but nothing that I don't think our core couldn't get past in the playoffs. I'll believe it when I see it with Toronto at this point. Everyone blamed Babcock for their lack of playoff success and now Sheldon Keefe has been the HC for 4 seasons, with largely the same core of players in-tact, and his squads still can't get it done either. Toronto certainly has the offensive fire power to compete with the best of them, but they just haven't translated that into any kind of playoff success. I spent from 2020 to last season predicting Boston's downfall due to having one of the oldest rosters in the league and aging superstars on it. I thought once Chara was done they'd falter and they haven't in each of the subsequent seasons since he's been gone. I'm likely done predicting Boston's downfall at this point because they just keep on winning despite their older than league average roster year after year. At the beginning of the season I was not quite ready to count out Tampa Bay given that they still have Kucherov, Stammer, and Hedman. I had their window to still make a run in the playoffs as this season and they don't appear to be making anything of it. So I can start to get behind the idea that their window is closed. Though it feels like with that core of players, a big time deadline move could jolt them back in it.

One of the Downriver Democratic State Reps Jaime Churches, from the Woodhaven area, is now also voting uncommitted in the primary. She's no far left type either. By my count I believe there are now 4 State House Reps that are now publicly expressing support for voting uncommitted. Jaime Churches from Downriver, Alabas Farhat from Dearborn, Abe Aiyash from Detroit/Hamtramck, and Dylan Wegela from Garden City.

AWESOME OT goal there by Kaner!

Thank you! Obliviously the East is considerably tougher come playoff time than the West and that is the big hang up that all the stats in the world just can makeup for. Just because conference is considerably tougher now doesn't mean a year or two from now it still will be. I was trying to statistically point out a lot of the similarities between where we are right now and where Vegas/St. Louis were in their respective Cup winning years. Difference conferences and tougher playoff matchups clearly stand in our way. To Buddha's point, we don't play the physical style of hockey that St. Louis played, but I don't know if it will matter as much. Patrick Kane, while of course an older and a different player these days, has still managed to be a double digit point producer in the playoffs before and I'd like to think we can squeeze one more run out of him. Maybe teams will press on him harder in the playoffs and take him out of games. But he's still a very talented, crafty player, who can find his way to the net.

I'm not saying we will win the Cup this year if we make the playoffs, but I think we are getting closer than people think as our defense, goaltending, and scoring depth improves. Larkin is the closest player we have to a PPG+ player on this team. We likely don't have a guy whose going to be contributing at a 2 PPG+ clip, nor consistently be an 90-100+ PPS type of a player. The more I looked into the numbers, the more I'm beginning to see that's not going to be a problem based on what two other recent Stanley Cup winners had on their teams. Sure, it would be nice to have a Connor McDavid, Jason Robertson, Mikko Rantanen, Mitch Marner type goal scorer and point producer. We don't need that though to win a Stanley Cup. Look at the Stanley Cup winner from just last year, the Vegas Golden Knights. Their top point producer in the regular season was Jack Eichel with 66 points and he was also their top goal scorer with 27 goals. In 2019 when the Blues won the Cup Ryan O'Reilly lead the team with 77 points and Vladimir Tarasenko had the most goals at 33. Neither team even had a guy that produced 80+ points or scored more than 35 goals, much less a 40 goals scorer. Both Vegas last year and St. Louis in 2019 played smart, defensively responsible, two-way hockey. Neither team turned the puck over a lot and both were in the bottom 10 of the league in defensive zone giveaways, with Vegas being in the bottom 3 last season. If you subtract our disastrously bad defense and goaltending in the month of December this season, we'd likely be in the bottom 7-10 in defensive zone giveaways too. I pulled these numbers from a poster (maximus91) on reddit and it further fits my narrative that our pathway forward is the Golden Knights and Blues models of building a Cup contending team. Both teams had only three 20+ goal scorers and only St. Louis had a singular 30 goal scorer. Both teams only had one player with PPG stats that season. Vegas had seven players with 40+ points last season, we potentially have 7-8 guys that could reach 40+ points this season (Larkin, DeBrincat, Raymond, Sprong, Gostisbehere, Seider, Compher, and maybe Kane). Two D-men reached the 40 point mark on Vegas, we likely have two that will hit that mark this season in Gostisbehere and Seider. Vegas had twelve 10+ goal scorers on their Cup team last year, St. Louis had thirteen 10+ goal scorers in 2019, we are currently at the same number now as Vegas was last year. They had 3 guys (Marchessault, Eichel, Smith) go over 20 goals, St. Louis had 3 guys (Tarasenko, O'Reilly, Perron), and we are likely to have 3 this year (Larkin, Raymond, DeBrincat). They had one D-men go over 50 points on Vegas in Pietrangelo, St. Louis had no D-men over 50 points, we don't have a D-man close to the 50 point mark. Vegas only gave up 229 GA, St. Louis in 2019 was at 220 GA, and this year we are currently at 181 GA and trending towards similar numbers for both teams. Vegas had 5 different goalies start for them and all but Jonathan Quick had above 915 SAV%, St. Louis had 3 goalies start with two (Allen and Binnington) above a 900 SV%, we have had 3 goalies start for us this year and 2 of 3 are above a 900 SV%. We aren't building a team in the mold of Colorado, Edmonton, or Toronto with multiple 90+ PPS or multiple 40+ GPS type of guys. We are much more in-line with recent Cup winners like Vegas and St. Louis. Both were teams who played smart two-way hockey, didn't turn the puck over, had a lot of goal scoring depth as opposed to a dominate first scoring line, were tough on the defensive end, and had multiple, quality starting goalies. A little more offensive contribution, a little more consistent defensive play and a goalie who can help carry the starting load with Alex Lyon (I'm looking at you Sebastian Cossa) and I really don't think we are as far away as people seem to think from being a Cup contender.

Martin Mayhew and Tom Lewand let Suh walk without getting nothing for him because they were arrogant about the fact they'd resign him.

Great teams add marquee players in free agency often. The defending Super Bowl champs just spent big money in free agency last year on their offensive line adding Jawaan Taylor at RT. The runner up in the Super Bowl spent big money in free agency on their defensive line adding Javon Hargrave at DT. No reason, other than it isn't likely Holmes' plan, that we can't be in on one marquee free agent like a Danielle Hunter, Jaylon Johnson, L'Jarius Sneed, etc.

Xavien Howard had a PPF grade last season of only 55 and that was with him playing opposite Jalen Ramsey. He had 1 INT and only 42 tackles in 13 games played. He hasn't had more than 1 INT in a season since 2021. He's 30 years old currently. He might be a guy I'd take a flyer on though as a depth piece if he wasn't looking for big time, starting CB1 money. I am not giving him CB 1 money though.