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3/20/24 7:00PM EDT Pacers @ Pistons


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15 minutes ago, Deleterious said:

Will Cade sign an extension this summer?

He will. He'd be stupid not to because all players know they can just ask for a trade afterwards.

The real question is whether or not he should get a max. Is he Haliburton?

A lot of people were coping with drafting Hayes over Haliburton because it meant we were bad enough to get Cade. But right now, I'd trade Cade, Ivey, and Duren for Haliburton and Indy would laugh at me for suggesting it. That's what a max rookie looks like. Is that Cade?

I like him, but does a guy who's more likely to be an All-Star reserve than an All-Star starter or Superstar deserve a max? If you spend your cap space maxing out All-Star reserves after 12 win seasons can you build a winner?

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2 minutes ago, buddha said:

it would with me and the sensible part of the population.

Well, the problem there is that the sensible part of the population might be dealing in percentage of the total population.

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52 minutes ago, Betrayer said:

He will. He'd be stupid not to because all players know they can just ask for a trade afterwards.

The real question is whether or not he should get a max. Is he Haliburton?

A lot of people were coping with drafting Hayes over Haliburton because it meant we were bad enough to get Cade. But right now, I'd trade Cade, Ivey, and Duren for Haliburton and Indy would laugh at me for suggesting it. That's what a max rookie looks like. Is that Cade?

I like him, but does a guy who's more likely to be an All-Star reserve than an All-Star starter or Superstar deserve a max? If you spend your cap space maxing out All-Star reserves after 12 win seasons can you build a winner?

But he has to wait a year to be traded after he signs it.  And it takes away the qualifying offer which is his only real leverage.  He could be looking at two years before the Pistons finally trade him.  

If Weaver is running the draft in June, I demand a trade July 1.  The only risk there is if he makes all nba next year he would be eligible for a larger contract if still a Piston but not with his new team.  I have zero faith in Weaver and wouldn't be mad at a young guy wanting to waste more time here under him.

Cade is a max player all day every day.  I also think 3rd year Cade is better than 3rd year Hali.  Cade has a much bigger bag on offense even though Hali is a better shooter.  Hali is a better PG/passer.  Cade is bad on defense but still better than Haliburton.  But maybe I am showing some recency bias since Haliburton has been terrible since the all star break.

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I'm not sure about the Cade vs Hali discussion, but I'm willing to hope you could be right over the long haul.

Things is, we may never know because the organization and coaches are so incompetent.

What would Cade look like under a real coach like Rick Carlisle? Watch the Pacers play. They do everything with purpose. Guys are cutting, screening, not hesitating, passing and catching the ball ready to go immediately or relocate. Everyone is on a string off the ball or on the ball. Yes, they have more talent overall, but even their scrubs play that way. That's  100% coaching. Rick is a coach that can make a team better than the sum of its parts. Monty is exactly the opposite. 

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4 hours ago, Deleterious said:

But he has to wait a year to be traded after he signs it.  And it takes away the qualifying offer which is his only real leverage.  He could be looking at two years before the Pistons finally trade him.  

If Weaver is running the draft in June, I demand a trade July 1.  The only risk there is if he makes all nba next year he would be eligible for a larger contract if still a Piston but not with his new team.  I have zero faith in Weaver and wouldn't be mad at a young guy wanting to waste more time here under him.

Cade is a max player all day every day.  I also think 3rd year Cade is better than 3rd year Hali.  Cade has a much bigger bag on offense even though Hali is a better shooter.  Hali is a better PG/passer.  Cade is bad on defense but still better than Haliburton.  But maybe I am showing some recency bias since Haliburton has been terrible since the all star break.

yeah - whether Cade would be smart to sign or bolt has been kicked around before here. If I'm following the bottom line is he can make more money if he signs then demands a trade but he's got a surer path to get away if he doesn't? I would agree Cade is confident he can get himself a max contract once he's out of Detroit. If it were me that would have to be the priority - you can't really point to a single thing or person in the org that would give a good player a reason to want to be here a minute longer.

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14 hours ago, gehringer_2 said:

yeah - whether Cade would be smart to sign or bolt has been kicked around before here. If I'm following the bottom line is he can make more money if he signs then demands a trade but he's got a surer path to get away if he doesn't? I would agree Cade is confident he can get himself a max contract once he's out of Detroit. If it were me that would have to be the priority - you can't really point to a single thing or person in the org that would give a good player a reason to want to be here a minute longer.

He has two max contracts he could sign.

25% of salary cap - This is available in all scenarios.  Sign and then demand trade.  Demand trade then sign with new team.  Even entering free agency.

30% of the cap - You have to do certain things to trigger this.  The things left available to Cade are win DPOY next year or make all NBA next year.  The one catch is you can only sign this type of deal with the original team that drafted you.  

So potentially the Pistons could offer the most since they are the only team that could offer the 30%.  But he is not winning DPOY.  If he continues to improve all league isn't totally out of the question.  But his odds would not be good IMO.  

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I wonder what kind of pressure the league would or could put on Cade to try and keep him from bolting? Would Silver be willing to promise to force a change in management or even ownership?  Cade is the only thing standing between this franchise collapsing into total chaos organizationally even if they already are a disaster competitively and the league can't be happy about that. OTOH, crazy Det fans keep buying tickets, so that part is not a crises so far.

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1 hour ago, gehringer_2 said:

I wonder what kind of pressure the league would or could put on Cade to try and keep him from bolting? Would Silver be willing to promise to force a change in management or even ownership?  Cade is the only thing standing between this franchise collapsing into total chaos organizationally even if they already are a disaster competitively and the league can't be happy about that. OTOH, crazy Det fans keep buying tickets, so that part is not a crises so far.

Why would the NBA care about Detroit?  They let Seattle lose a team and the Sonics had a pretty good following up there.  Granted, the Pistons have a better building to play in then Seattle did when they moved.  If a situation comes along that betters the league at large by moving the franchise somewhere else, it will happen.

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4 minutes ago, casimir said:

Why would the NBA care about Detroit?  They let Seattle lose a team and the Sonics had a pretty good following up there.  Granted, the Pistons have a better building to play in then Seattle did when they moved.  If a situation comes along that betters the league at large by moving the franchise somewhere else, it will happen.

I suppose the question is how long the fans will keep coming out - and what the TV ratings are (no idea about that one). I was actually surprised to see how many they are still pulling in at LCA when I checked a few attendance numbers as I wrote that post.

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I would be 100% against the league forcing anything.  Only time I agree with that is a situation like Sterling in LA.

You would also have a hard time justifying the league stepping in.  This isn't a Philadelphia situation where they were attempting to lose.  The Pistons are trying to win they just suck at it.  Gores also spends money.  They are always well above the minimum salary floor.  They play in a new arena and just spent millions building a state of the art practice facility.  

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1 hour ago, gehringer_2 said:

I suppose the question is how long the fans will keep coming out - and what the TV ratings are (no idea about that one). I was actually surprised to see how many they are still pulling in at LCA when I checked a few attendance numbers as I wrote that post.

Do you mean how many LCA tickets are purchased or how many LCA seats are filled?

I noticed one of the talking heads for the Cure Auto Insurance commercials sitting courtside during one of the recent games.  I half wondered if we’re going to see Rashad and Glen from whatever health care commercial plays during the game suit up for the Pistons since they’ve gotten their ills cured and they have Piston jerseys.  Hey, Glen claims he can rebound with the best of ‘em.  Let’s see how good the hip replacement really is.

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if the pistons moved to seattle tomorrow the league wouldnt care.

i think the league sees one of their franchises struggling and it would like it not to struggle, but other than that theyre not going to step in and do anything.  the leader of the franchise told a paying customer he was going to kick his ass and the league did nothing.

and gores spends money, he just doesnt know what he's doing and places people in charge that dont know either.  

do the pistons own part of LCA?  if not, i could see them move.  but if they put a lot of money into a new practice facility they probably arent going anywhere.  

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