casimir Posted April 5 Share Posted April 5 (edited) 16 hours ago, Betrayer said: Nice game from Flynn, but the bigger story to me was Jaden and Jalen. Jaden continues his streak of playing terribly. Missing layups, missing threes, turnovers, and poor defense. No Cade in the lineup and you'd think he'd come out swinging. Instead he sat on the bench watching Flynn. Jalen once again did his best Andre Drummond impression. Terrible dribble drives that end in a blocked shot or turnover. Jumpshots that he's not capable of making. Complaining to the refs on offense when they don't bail him out of terrible decisions while Atlanta runs it down the court to score. When that draft happened, I thought we came out on top. But the more I see, the more disappointed I get. Maybe it's just bad habits learned from being on a team with no winners or winning culture. Either way, change needs to come at the end of this season, and the more I see the more I'm OK with one or both of these guys getting moved. 15 hours ago, NYLion said: J&J need to go. Been saying that pretty much all season, low IQ limited skill players that get by on athleticism and pretty much athleticism alone. Keep the high IQ duo of Cade and Ausar, keep Fontecchio as a 3 and D, Sasser and Stewart off the bench and fill out the rest of the roster with the Ivey and Duren trade returns, the draft pick and a few capable vets through free agency. Their trade value, Ivey's in particular, might have already deteriorated but they should do it now before the rest of the league is wise to what they are. I hate to say it because there's a bundle of talent with both but they, one, don't fit here and, two, are never likely to play winning basketball. Geeez, I also thought Ivey and Duren were an absolute steal for the Pistons. I want to say they still have untapped potential, but I could be overestimating them. And even if they have that growth there, is this franchise going to get that growth out of them? And I'll add this, too. If trading them away is the best option, is this franchise capable of making the best of that move? Edited April 5 by casimir Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deleterious Posted April 5 Share Posted April 5 What is the market for two bad players on one of the worst teams of all time? If someone offers you the 25th pick for Duren do you take it? I think you would. I guess he is added value if they trade the 1st round pick this year. But how excited are teams about getting a bad player who plays the least important position on the floor? I am much more inclined to keep Ivey than I am Duren. Part of that is because he does play an important position. I also think if you can get him to just slow down a little bit his game would improve. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deleterious Posted April 5 Share Posted April 5 Almost want to keep both. If they develop great. If not, being in the Flagg/Bailey sweepstakes isn't the worst outcome. Well, not until Detroit gets the third pick I guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Betrayer Posted April 5 Share Posted April 5 3 hours ago, casimir said: Geeez, I also thought Ivey and Duren were an absolute steal for the Pistons. I want to say they still have untapped potential, but I could be overestimating them. And even if they have that growth there, is this franchise going to get that growth out of them? And I'll add this, too. If trading them away is the best option, is this franchise capable of making the best of that move? I agree, there is still potential there and I also agree that it just may not happen here. However I think there are also two more questions to ask: Even if they develop a bit more, do they fit? If these guys were superstars I wouldn't care about fit, but it's clear to me that they aren't and so they need to fit next to your franchise player. We need someone who can shoot and defend better than Ivey next to Cade. We also need a Center who can either space the court or defend, and Duren does neither well. You especially need him to space the court if you plan to develop Ausar. Sure, you could play Ivey as sixth man and maybe Duren shares minutes with a spacer or comes off the bench, but that gets to my next point... We don't have a lot of other assets. @Deleterious asked what we could get for these players individually, and I don't know the answer to that, but I think you have to find out because we really don't have many other assets that can be packaged to improve this team. It's not that I dislike J&J and wouldn't want to see them on my team in some capacity. It's simply that they're both young and still have "potential", which is one of the few things you can sell to improve this roster. That clock is ticking though, so you'd have to do it this offseason. In regards to whether or not this franchise is capable, I doubt it. That's why you need to clean house (GM and Coach both). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casimir Posted April 5 Share Posted April 5 5 hours ago, Betrayer said: I agree, there is still potential there and I also agree that it just may not happen here. However I think there are also two more questions to ask: Even if they develop a bit more, do they fit? If these guys were superstars I wouldn't care about fit, but it's clear to me that they aren't and so they need to fit next to your franchise player. We need someone who can shoot and defend better than Ivey next to Cade. We also need a Center who can either space the court or defend, and Duren does neither well. You especially need him to space the court if you plan to develop Ausar. Sure, you could play Ivey as sixth man and maybe Duren shares minutes with a spacer or comes off the bench, but that gets to my next point... We don't have a lot of other assets. @Deleterious asked what we could get for these players individually, and I don't know the answer to that, but I think you have to find out because we really don't have many other assets that can be packaged to improve this team. It's not that I dislike J&J and wouldn't want to see them on my team in some capacity. It's simply that they're both young and still have "potential", which is one of the few things you can sell to improve this roster. That clock is ticking though, so you'd have to do it this offseason. In regards to whether or not this franchise is capable, I doubt it. That's why you need to clean house (GM and Coach both). The classic damned if they do and damned if they don’t. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted April 5 Share Posted April 5 5 hours ago, Betrayer said: do they fit? Exactly. Cade should play with a guard who can play on ball D, which Ivey has a long way to go on, and a big man who can pass and shoot and draws a defender again - pretty much the inverse of Duren. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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