Trumps Presidency 2025

[Tiger337]

Just now, mtutiger said:

My point still stands. He's widely despised in the broader public, and The Big Club that you speak of, the guys like Bezos and Cook and Musk, would all prefer that he weren't

I don't think they care that much.  They will still drive policy in the United States and make billions one way of the other once he is gone.  They always do.  I think he is probably easier for them to manipulate, but they can still get what they want.  

[mtutiger]

1 minute ago, Tiger337 said:

I don't think they care that much.  They will still drive policy in the United States and make billions one way of the other once he is gone.  They always do.  I think he is probably easier for them to manipulate, but they can still get what they want.  

Sure, they'd still be heavy hitters under another administration (at least Amazon and Apple anyway)... but that doesn't mean they don't have a *clear* preference. They clearly do, and they clearly do *care* about it given all the money they have spent on this administration.

Your eyes and ears tell you something different perhaps, but I saw Tim Apple go into the The White House and give him that stupid plaque with a 24 karat gold base to appeal to his vanity and ego. And to get policy concessions they wanted. 

So again, my point stands.

[Tiger337]

2 minutes ago, mtutiger said:

Sure, they'd still be heavy hitters under another administration (at least Amazon and Apple anyway)... but that doesn't mean they don't have a *clear* preference. They clearly do, and they clearly do *care* about it given all the money they have spent on this administration.

Your eyes and ears tell you something different perhaps, but I saw Tim Apple go into the The White House and give him that stupid plaque with a 24 karat gold base to appeal to his vanity and ego. And to get policy concessions they wanted. 

So again, my point stands.

Yes, he is easy to manipulate, but I think they really would like him to shut the **** up, so they can perform their corruption quietly.  

[mtutiger]

5 minutes ago, Tiger337 said:

Yes, he is easy to manipulate, but I think they really would like him to shut the **** up, so they can perform their corruption quietly.  

They know who this guy is and how he's always been. They are in bed with him because they like him, warts and all.

[CMRivdogs]

I think you can see it in the redistricting talk. Not necessarily about Trump pet say (though he's the guy pushing the narrative) but in the "conversation" about what's happening.

To Virginia Republicans it's a power grab by Spanberger and the Democrats. And if you dare to mention what happened in Texas or what's happening in Florida they'll come up with some mambo  pambo that "justifies" it. 

[CMRivdogs]

Something good came out of Saturday Night

 

[CMRivdogs]

Yep, and all his flying monkey supporters too

 

Edited 2 hours ago by CMRivdogs

[chasfh]

3 hours ago, mtutiger said:

Your point is... what exactly?

Ridiculing these guys as a bunch of weirdos isn't a downplay of a threat that they present. But they're also deeply despised right now in the broader culture, much more than they were in November 2024. And they oughtta be treated accordingly.

I disagree that ridiculing the Trump cabal as a bunch of weirdos isn't downplaying the threat, and the same goes for ridiculing them as stupid and incompetent. They are all those things, yes it's true, but to focus on the stupidity and incompetence and weirdness takes the pressure off their evil and, as importantly, leads us to forget that their hands are on the levers of more lethal power than any other ruling body in the history of the world. This thinking leads us into the false sense of security that they are too stupid and incompetent to control the world for even a second, and then we assume it will be their stupidity and incompetence that will bring them down, and so all we have to do is play the waiting game, which most D-leaning people believe will be this November.

There is a valid historical parallel because the Nazis seemed so weird when they themselves started out, so nobody took them seriously, until all of a sudden, everyone had to. I'm sure practically everyone agrees that Trump aspires to absolute power, but if you think he wouldn't want to wield it in the way Hitler did, with the power of life and death over an entire population, then you haven't been paying attention to the effusive praise Trump unabashedly heaps on Kim Jong Un for the way he has an entire nation at his beck and call, maintained through his own Hitlerian tactics.

I am all for making fun of this regime's stupidity and incompetence and weirdness. It's a great release valve during arguably the most stressful and uncertain time of our lives. What I am not for at all is sitting back and believing it is their very stupidity and incompetence and weirdness that must inevitably bring them down all on their own, and that we need do nothing more than wait them out.

[mtutiger]

29 minutes ago, chasfh said:

I disagree that ridiculing the Trump cabal as a bunch of weirdos isn't downplaying the threat, and the same goes for ridiculing them as stupid and incompetent. They are all those things, yes it's true, but to focus on the stupidity and incompetence and weirdness takes the pressure off their evil and, as importantly, leads us to forget that their hands are on the levers of more lethal power than any other ruling body in the history of the world. This thinking leads us into the false sense of security that they are too stupid and incompetent to control the world for even a second, and then we assume it will be their stupidity and incompetence that will bring them down, and so all we have to do is play the waiting game, which most D-leaning people believe will be this November.

There is a valid historical parallel because the Nazis seemed so weird when they themselves started out, so nobody took them seriously, until all of a sudden, everyone had to. I'm sure practically everyone agrees that Trump aspires to absolute power, but if you think he wouldn't want to wield it in the way Hitler did, with the power of life and death over an entire population, then you haven't been paying attention to the effusive praise Trump unabashedly heaps on Kim Jong Un for the way he has an entire nation at his beck and call, maintained through his own Hitlerian tactics.

I am all for making fun of this regime's stupidity and incompetence and weirdness. It's a great release valve during arguably the most stressful and uncertain time of our lives. What I am not for at all is sitting back and believing it is their very stupidity and incompetence and weirdness that must inevitably bring them down all on their own, and that we need do nothing more than wait them out.

To be clear, I understand the risk that this administration has posed and continues to pose on the public. And certainly that requires vigilance going forward. But I think you mischaracterize my position... I don't think we should "wait these guys out", people absolutely should do what they can to donate to candidates or to attend protests or do whatever they think moves the ball down the field.

But I am going to continue to call things like I see them. And they are incompetent and they are weird, they are wildly out of touch with the median American with regards to things that they are most concerned about (cost of living; if anything, because of the war and tariffs, he proudly advertises making things even more expensive for everyone). Through their terror campaign up in the Twin Cities (which the people of the Twin Cities *won* in the end BTW), they have managed to burn bridges with the types of voters who helped him win in 2024 (ie. Hispanics / young voters). The President himself looks old and senile, increasingly does not command the sort of stature or the ability to command events or public opinion that he did earlier in his career. And the President, for his part, is now getting poll numbers that are approaching Bush Iraq levels.

I don't think that acknowledging these realities automatically means you don't consider the administration dangerous. That's where you and I differ IMO.

Edited 2 hours ago by mtutiger

[chasfh]

3 hours ago, Tiger337 said:

What they don't want is for everybody to start pointing fingers at them instead.  

They don't have to worry about people pointing fingers at them, because neutering the effectiveness of doing so is what the preemptive projection they constantly engage in is all about.

There are countless examples, but here's a low-hanging one: without evidence (as usual), Trump accused Democrats of stealing the 2020 election on Election night itself, even before all the votes had been counted. Then, over the next two months, the Trump cabal laid the groundwork to steal the 2020 election, culminating with the January 6 raid, which was completely botched, so it didn't actually work that time. But it wasn't a total loss, because afterwards, anytime anyone accused Trump of trying to steal the 2020 election, it looked like a mere back-and-forth accusation without any teeth. Trump accused the Democrats first of stealing the election, then the Democrats accused Trump of trying the steal the election, then back and forth, back and forth, difference of opinion, tomato tomahto. That's how it's played out, and that's one of the reasons there's no consensus on the 2020 Election Theft issue, obvious though it all was.

That's the genius of the whole projection scheme, and no, it has nothing to do with Trump being an evil genius or some such rot, because he didn't come up with the idea. It's been in the Russian playbook for centuries. The reason it's been working so well in a sophisticated, reasonably well-educated, multicultural society such as ours is that we weren't used to it. But we're starting to get used to it, and in a hurry. Now we have to figure out how to fight it, and win.

[Tigerbomb13]

Riiiiiiight 

[chasfh]

4 minutes ago, mtutiger said:

To be clear, I understand the risk that this administration has posed and continues to pose on the public. And certainly that requires vigilance going forward. But I think you mischaracterize my position... I don't think we should "wait these guys out", people absolutely should do what they can to donate to candidates or to attend protests or do whatever they think moves the ball down the field.

But I am going to continue to call things like I see them. And they are incompetent and they are weird, they are wildly out of touch with the median American with regards to things that they are most concerned about (cost of living; if anything, because of the war and tariffs, he proudly advertises making things even more expensive for everyone). Through their terror campaign up in the Twin Cities (which the people of the Twin Cities *won* in the end BTW), they have managed to burn bridges with the types of voters who helped him win in 2024 (ie. Hispanics / young voters). The President himself looks old and senile, increasingly does not command the sort of stature or the ability to command events or public opinion that he did earlier in his career. And the President, for his part, is now getting poll numbers that are approaching Bush Iraq levels.

I don't think that acknowledging these realities automatically means you don't consider the administration dangerous. That's where you and I differ IMO.

I take you at your word that you believe I am mischaracterizing you and that you do understand the real dangers we are facing. If I have done so, it's because I've interpreted your replies to people's—OK, to my—legitimate fears of this regime as dismissing their seriousness, by reasoning that this regime is so stupid and incompetent, no reasonable person could suppose they could ever succeed. That, to me, argues that you're diminishing the threat, because in my view, their stupidity and incompetence does not automatically disqualify any ability to post big wins for a long, long time, including beyond my lifetime and perhaps yours, too. You may recognize this as well, so I can admit that maybe I've been missing the fine needle you're threading with your position. 

Just a few housecleaning issues:

• I think it's going to take a lot more than voting and donating and protesting to finally beat these guys, but since that's all people like you and I can do, hopefully we can maintain the energy to keep it up and inspire real action by the people on our side who actually can make a difference on the inside.
• Their terror campaign in Mpls has not been won in the end, because we're not yet at the end. Minneapolis won't truly be over and won until Trump and his successors are out of power for good, their philosophy roundly repudiated and driven underground where it belongs, and true reconciliation achieved. Until then, they can always come back for more, and even smarter about it.
• Fingers crossed that poll numbers continue to matter.

[mtutiger]

10 minutes ago, chasfh said:

I take you at your word that you believe I am mischaracterizing you and that you do understand the real dangers we are facing. If I have done so, it's because I've interpreted your replies to people's—OK, to my—legitimate fears of this regime as dismissing their seriousness, by reasoning that this regime is so stupid and incompetent, no reasonable person could suppose they could ever succeed. That, to me, argues that you're diminishing the threat, because in my view, their stupidity and incompetence does not automatically disqualify any ability to post big wins for a long, long time, including beyond my lifetime and perhaps yours, too. You may recognize this as well, so I can admit that maybe I've been missing the fine needle you're threading with your position. 

To be clear as well, I'm absolutely concerned about what the Post-Trump world looks like. But if Trump is trying to truly consolidate power in a way similar to other authoritarian regimes, I don't think he's succeeding just based on the totality of the evidence (including the things mentioned in my above post). That doesn't mean we are out of the woods whenever he goes away... it will take a lot of work to prevent it from happening, and I'll be honest, I question whether the Democrats have the stomach for it.

16 minutes ago, chasfh said:

Just a few housecleaning issues:

• I think it's going to take a lot more than voting and donating and protesting to finally beat these guys, but since that's all people like you and I can do, hopefully we can maintain the energy to keep it up and inspire real action by the people on our side who actually can make a difference on the inside.
• Their terror campaign in Mpls has not been won in the end, because we're not yet at the end. Minneapolis won't truly be over and won until Trump and his successors are out of power for good, their philosophy roundly repudiated and driven underground where it belongs, and true reconciliation achieved. Until then, they can always come back for more, and even smarter about it.
• Fingers crossed that poll numbers continue to matter.

1. Donating and protesting are all we can do, we all control what we control. 

2. I'll amend to say that they won the battle and perhaps not the overall war, but if nothing else, they did beat back the federal government from their gross overreach and, in the process, demonstrated that this government does not have the capability to control the 25th largest metro area in the country (let alone LA or Chicago or NY) and likely never will.

3. We can maybe question whether the degree of the shift is bigger or smaller than what is shown by some of the polling, but directionally, it's all pointing in one direction since November 2024... he (and his party) are in much worse shape than they were in 2024, and they matter both politically and even in terms of the authoritarian consoldation project, as it is much much harder to consolidate when upwards of 60-65% of the public disapproves versus approves.