Will Tigers Pony up for Skubal

[gehringer_2]

2 hours ago, chasfh said:

I would bet that Harris has some input into on-field strategy, and i would further bet that he is doing it by Hinch's choice, rather than against his will.

Certainly possible. And AJ always knows enough to say a lot of nice things about the people he works for, so you wouldn't necessarily find out he didn't wanted their advice if he didn't.....

Edited 3 hours ago by gehringer_2

[gehringer_2]

30 minutes ago, Tiger337 said:

If I remember correctly, the majority of people here liked that trade.  

I had no problem with the value proposition per se. They could not have gotten any more for Isaac. My complaint was that they mishandled Paredes to where he never had a chance to show us - or potential trade partners, that he might have had more value, which he subsequently did.

Edited 3 hours ago by gehringer_2

[Stormin]

3 hours ago, buddha said:

results wise in the major leagues, i think its hard to argue harris has improved the major league team dramatically outside of skubal's starts.  when skubal doesnt pitch, the tigers are decidedly average.  

I do want the Tigers to extend Skubal, but I am not a fan of the Free Press article portraying the Tigers as currently mediocre and the future hopeless without Skubal (42-20 when Skubal starts and 131-131 when Skubal does not start over the last two seasons). 

Since 2022 nearly every position on the Tigers roster has improved (Javy was the highest WAR player in 2022).  The Tigers needed Skubal and improvement at other positions to make the playoffs.

If Skubal does go elsewhere, the Tigers will need development and contributions from multiple players(Turn 5 losses into 5 wins in a season)  to remain a playoff contender.  Jobe, Melton, maybe a healthy Olson, McGonigle, Clark,  ... are on the horizon.

[gehringer_2]

1 hour ago, Tiger337 said:

 It's interesting that the 2025 was pretty much the mirror image of 2024 which I think is more the ramdomness of baseball than anything they did wrong.  

It's certainly an object lesson in the limits of major league coaching in baseball. Unless all the guys who didn't hit at the end of last season never recover and their careers are all down the tubes (not very likely) we are faced with the reality that even though the talent continued to be there, the coaching couldn't get the team out of the funk it was in.

[gehringer_2]

11 minutes ago, Stormin said:

but I am not a fan of the Free Press article portraying the Tigers as currently mediocre and the future hopeless without Skubal (42-20 when Skubal starts and 131-131 when Skubal does not start over the last two seasons). 

there are of course two possible sides to that result - that Harris hasn't done much to rebuild the team, or that he has but while he was rebuilding the offense the pitching behind Skubal has gotten weaker, so that better starting line-up is still laboring at 500 playing in front of the rest of a worse staff.  The reality is somewhere on that continuum.

And TBH, all the debate about how good Harris is as a trade and FA manager isn't going to matter a spit if the org can't also start spitting out pitchers who are also of the calibre of McGonigle and Co.

Edited 3 hours ago by gehringer_2

[buddha]

2 hours ago, SoCalTiger said:

Not keeping candy was the right choice then and the right choice now and if anybody has regrets, I think you can get them from Cincinnati for a Song.
 

 

well sure, but we cant give up Song just to marginally improve at 3b, he's the 16th highest rated prospect in our system!

[Stormin]

8 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

there are of course two possible sides to that result - that Harris hasn't done much to rebuild the team, or that he has but while he was rebuilding the offense the pitching behind Skubal has gotten weaker, so that better starting line-up is still laboring at 500 playing in front of the rest of the staff.  The reality is somewhere on 

I am not sure how much I care what credit Harris deserves or does not deserve, as long as the Tigers keep fielding playoff contending teams and make the playoffs on a regular basis.

[AlaskanTigersFan]

10 hours ago, gehringer_2 said:

the numbers floating around for Framber Valdez have been 5/$160. Tigers could certainly afford that but I haven't seen them listed as in the hunt even once.

Dudes toxic as all get out. Do you really want him near the "kids" on this team? 

[Tiger337]

17 minutes ago, AlaskanTigersFan said:

Dudes toxic as all get out. Do you really want him near the "kids" on this team? 

That's been the assumption with him, but the the Astros have performed well over the years with him on the team.  So, I don't really have an opinion on whether he would be a good teammate.  I know about the incident with the catcher last year, but it might be an isolated incident where he lost his temper or maybe others on the team hated the catcher too.  Who knows?  If the Tigers signed him, I would assume he was not a problem.  I doubt we'll have to worry about that though.  

[tiger2022]

2 hours ago, Sports_Freak said:

Oh yeah, agreed. But letting him walk with no replacement in place? I'll always consider that a mistake. And Nick Maton? Was there any indication that he would be the answer? Like was he a highly regarded minor league prospect? Or just....a cheap option?

How about starting 2025 out with Trey Sweeney and Jace Jung at SS and 3rd?  Neither of those guys are even below average mlb players.

That was inexcusable.  

[1984Echoes]

2 hours ago, Tiger337 said:

What about Skubal?  

2 hours ago, Sports_Freak said:

I guess seeing what they do for Skubal will tell us more than ...

How Skubal is handled will tell us nothing.

He's on the wrong timeframe.

If we pay him according to Boras, we'll be paying for his 30+ years (age), for too long (10 years), and for future injured years.

So...

No thanks.

Wrong timeframe. Most of Avila's players are on the wrong timeframe.

Dingler and Keith most likely would join in the Harris-McGonigle-Clark timeframe, possibly Jobe if he can stay healthy and reach his potential... But I think a lot of Avila players are going to be shunted off the team when Harris finds better options more akin to his philosophy.

[tiger2022]

1 hour ago, gehringer_2 said:

there are of course two possible sides to that result - that Harris hasn't done much to rebuild the team, or that he has but while he was rebuilding the offense the pitching behind Skubal has gotten weaker, so that better starting line-up is still laboring at 500 playing in front of the rest of a worse staff.  The reality is somewhere on that continuum.

And TBH, all the debate about how good Harris is as a trade and FA manager isn't going to matter a spit if the org can't also start spitting out pitchers who are also of the calibre of McGonigle and Co.

Harris really hasn't done much to improve the current roster.  Outside of the bullpen and Torres, all the players were guys that were already here when he took over.  Things just kind of worked out for him so far. He gave minimal effort to try to improve the roster at the trade deadline.  

Having Sweeney and Jung as starting SS and 3rd baseman going into last season was just a terrible decision.  

His FA signings have been bad, his trades have been even worse.  

We'll see how his draft picks pan out.  Having highly rated prospects isn't the same as having accomplished mlb players.

[gehringer_2]

49 minutes ago, Tiger337 said:

That's been the assumption with him, but the the Astros have performed well over the years with him on the team.  So, I don't really have an opinion on whether he would be a good teammate.  I know about the incident with the catcher last year, but it might be an isolated incident where he lost his temper or maybe others on the team hated the catcher too.  Who knows?  If the Tigers signed him, I would assume he was not a problem.  I doubt we'll have to worry about that though.  

Yeah - sometimes it's the supposed 'good guys' on a team that create the toxicity for everyone else who sees things a little differently. For instance, I don't necessarily see James McCann as the good guy in his altercation with Iglesias. Jose had had hardships and taken real risks in his life McCann couldn't dream of and if Jose didn't look at a baseball game as life and death he had earned that right. Didn't mean he wasn't giving you his best on the field.

[HeyAbbott]

Reading over this thread, I have to place myself as  some kind of a pragmatist. I give Harris good overall grades. I believe he is reminiscent of a financial sort of guy mostly, not a riverboat gambler like Dombroski or Mike I. I think that Skubal is here for a year, and if one looks at his long term injury and surgery history, I'd place him at an even bet to require another arm surgery by '28, although no one knows for sure.

I will accept the premise that we have a pitching shortfall,but, I am still convinced we are one bat in the lineup shy for 2026. I don't think Harris ever expected the Tigers to be a playoff team 2 years in a row, and he has not adjusted his thinking for the facts on the ground. There are other things brewing in the background that might be creating a perception of undue risk to an overly risk adverse chap like Harris.

[Longgone]

4 hours ago, Sports_Freak said:

Do you see the Tigers ever signing premium and expensive players to long term contracts of 6 years or more? And I'm not saying it's Harris who wouldn't do it, I've said several times that nobody knows if he's under orders to keep payroll set at a certain amount. Chris doesn't spend like his dad spent. At least, not yet.

Yes, I do, but it will have to be a player on which Harris is totally convicted and fills a big hole, not simply who is available.

[Stormin]

1 hour ago, tiger2022 said:

Harris really hasn't done much to improve the current roster.  Outside of the bullpen and Torres, all the players were guys that were already here when he took over.  Things just kind of worked out for him so far. He gave minimal effort to try to improve the roster at the trade deadline.  

Having Sweeney and Jung as starting SS and 3rd baseman going into last season was just a terrible decision.  

His FA signings have been bad, his trades have been even worse.  

We'll see how his draft picks pan out.  Having highly rated prospects isn't the same as having accomplished mlb players.

Releasing Candelario and trading Joe Jimenez seemed like penny pinching money saving moves.

Could have got more for Soto, but Vierling has not been bad.

Maeda signing was bad, Cobb signing was horrible.

Flaherty and Torres were good signings

McKinstry and Finnegan trades yielded good results.

Lorenzen was a good signing and the trade for Lee doesn't seem bad.

Have not given or received significant value in any other trade I can remember.

Giving young players the opportunity to work through ups and down, and recover from injuries, has paid off (Dingler, Perez, Mize, Tork)

Sweeney/Jung were former #1 draft picks who had hit well at AAA. Sweeney had contributed to the 2024 playoff run.  Jung was given a total of 47 MLB at bats in 2025.  Meadows, Vierling, Perez were injured in spring training precipitating Javy's move to CF. Tigers danced too long with Bregman/Boros and maybe should have found a better third base option.  The Tigers probably gave Sweeney too much run.  Inexcusable?  meh

The Tigers have made the playoffs the last two seasons and on paper the team looks better going into 2026 than 2024 or 2025.

Edited 3 minutes ago by Stormin