Red Wings Offseason 2025

[buddha]

5 hours ago, Mr.TaterSalad said:

Life would be positively unfair if the Panthers got Marner. Too add Mitch Marner to a front line that already includes Bennett, Marchand, Rinehart, Tkachuk would be disgusting. Amazing that Florida can have that level of talent and still be under the cap enough to add Marner. Meanwhile, we're stuck here with the likes of Copp, Compher, Holl, etc.

they couldnt keep marchand, bennett, and marner.  they'd lose bennett and marchand if they signed marner.

marner is so NOT a panther type player that i cant imagine them breaking up everything to get him.  however, they are likely to lose marchand and probably bennett too.  maybe they go after him?  no state income tax could net them marner on the same or similar deal rantanen got 7×12.

however, i think marner gets 13 or 14 from utah or chicago.  maybe even more.

[buddha]

5 hours ago, slothfacekilla said:

I wouldn't be shocked if guys like him and Kreider aren't being shopped around too, but just a guess.  Maybe they aren't looking for a hard reset though.

I didn't realize Miller had that many years left on his deal, wonder what his game looks like in those last 3 or so years.

kreider is becoming a popular trade candidate to detroit.  feisty vet winger to play with larkin/raymond.  2x6.5.  would probably only cost you the 3rd rounder you have from the rangers.

im not sure i do that but i hate kreider.

[slothfacekilla]

Just now, buddha said:

kreider is becoming a popular trade candidate to detroit.  feisty vet winger to play with larkin/raymond.  2x6.5.  would probably only cost you the 3rd rounder you have from the rangers.

im not sure i do that but i hate kreider.

I am slightly worried about the miles on his body at this point, but the Wings could really use some of his style of play.  He seems like a bastard to play against on the ice.

Randomly, my sister in law gave him a few jiu jitsu lessons years back when she was living and training in New York and he's supposedly a very nice guy.  So that's cool.

[buddha]

6 hours ago, gehringer_2 said:

Yup - this is the bigger failure of the Wings front office. A bad team should at least have gotten itself into position to outbid the teams they need to catch.

begs the question again: should they have traded larkin in 2019 when his value was still so high?

speaking of what ifs: what if the wings take logan stankovan or wyatt johnston instead of cossa?

i know goalies take a long time to develop, but i would deal cossa for a k'andre miller or a bowen byram or a jj peterka if that was on offer...

[buddha]

1 minute ago, slothfacekilla said:

I am slightly worried about the miles on his body at this point, but the Wings could really use some of his style of play.  He seems like a bastard to play against on the ice.

Randomly, my sister in law gave him a few jiu jitsu lessons years back when she was living and training in New York and he's supposedly a very nice guy.  So that's cool.

i know that style of play is what they are said to be looking for.  it was why they were so hot after trouba and reportedly wanted stamkos (for that leadership...) and were so happy with perron.

they'll give up skill and speed for some grit....debrincat notwithstanding.

i am also worried about his age.  

i was dead set against them re-signing perron but in hindsight i think substituting tarasenko for him sunk them last year.

[Shinzaki]

I think Compher regressing...Tarasenko sucking and Rasmussen disappointing were their biggest issues.   That and they actually had to play Holl and Gustafsson 

Edited May 29 by Shinzaki

[gehringer_2]

12 minutes ago, Shinzaki said:

I think Compher regressing...Tarasenko sucking and Rasmussen disappointing were their biggest issues.   That and they actually had to play Holl and Gustafsson 

5 guys on the roster who were essentially deadwood, 6 if you count Petry, not a good look in any season.

[buddha]

copp actually played pretty well last year.

compher was garbage.  and rasmussen has been such a disappointment.

[1984Echoes]

13 hours ago, buddha said:

max bultman proposed that.

tarasenko has zero value.  negative value actually.  the only way the stars part with marchment is to get rid of salary, they wouldnt take back 4.5 million of uselessness.

Which is why I said a 3rd team would have to be involved and I just WAG'd that it would cost a 3rd and 4th to dump Tarasenko.

You may have missed that...

[1984Echoes]

9 hours ago, buddha said:

....  and rasmussen has been such a disappointment.

Not much different from Mantha.

I was hoping for better from Ras...

[1984Echoes]

10 hours ago, Shinzaki said:

I think Compher regressing...Tarasenko sucking and Rasmussen disappointing were their biggest issues.   That and they actually had to play Holl and Gustafsson 

If a couple kiddies from GR could make the jump, or they trade for a top-4 D...

That could push Chiarot & Holl down to 3rd pair only, or Holl to 7th D... And I think that would be perfect for the Wings.

Petry is UFA... leaving only Gustafsson sitting in the box as a "break-in-case-of-DIRE-emergency" 8th D'man.

I'd love to see Buium or Wallinder go crazy and take 1st pair with Seider... not that I'm counting on that or anything like that... 😉

I think Compher can come back. Uncertain how much... I just think he has better in him... Maybe paired with Danielson on a 3rd line?

Speaking of which... who needs to move to make room for Nate? Berggren? Tarasenko? Rasmussen? All of the above? (getting a power forward or two back in various trades or signings...)

Just a couple of thoughts I was thinking...

[Mr.TaterSalad]

12 hours ago, gehringer_2 said:

5 guys on the roster who were essentially deadwood, 6 if you count Petry, not a good look in any season.

That's the so what of it all. Yzerman's pro-side scouting has been among the very worst in the league. Whoever advised him to sign some of these dead bodies like Chiarot, Gustafsson, Holl, Husso, Petry, Tarasenko has been advising him incorrectly and giving him bad advice. If he did his own film study and scouting and made the decision to sign many or all of these guys that's even worse I think. At least if he was taking bad scouting advice from someone else in the organization like Aaron Kahn, Chris Yzerman, Dan Clearly, Jiri Fischer, Kirk Maltby, Shawn Horcoff, etc. he could replace them with someone else and give it another go perhaps. If he is making these moves on his own accord, having done his own film study, then he might be the one that needs to go. 

It seems as if our pro scouting needs a complete makeover and that someone or multiple someone's in player personnel might need to be replaced. Scott Harris and Brad Holmes are both good examples to look to of GM's who came in here and immediately went to work cleaning out their respective front offices and bringing in new personnel and with them, new ways of doing business and new perspectives. Yzerman seems to have largely kept the same front office as Kenny had with Cleary, Draper, Fischer, Horcoff, Kronwall, Maltby and good ole boys from the ghosts of Red Wings past. That, on top of giving his brother a cushy job as a Pro Scout in the organization.

Edited May 29 by Mr.TaterSalad

[slothfacekilla]

I would expect a bit of a bounceback for Tarasenko (dealing with the death of his father last season), Gustafsson (after looking like one of the worst Wings ever under uncle fester I thought he had some good moments under Todd, just not enough), and Compher (this is just a hope since he isn't THAT old and had a better season two years ago).

Holl is in a contract year so maybe he picks it up somehow?  I have no hope for Rasmussen, I pray some other team sees his size and thinks he can help them in their bottom six but they're probably stuck with him.  Sad he never kept developing when he looked like he was a couple seasons ago then got hurt.  He sucks!

[lordstanley]

2 hours ago, Mr.TaterSalad said:

Yzerman seems to have largely kept the same front office as Kenny had with Cleary, Draper, Fischer, Horcoff, Kronwall, Maltby and good ole boys from the ghosts of Red Wings past. That, on top of giving his brother a cushy job as a Pro Scout in the organization.

Interesting, I didn't know about the part that I italicized.

[Mr.TaterSalad]

1 minute ago, lordstanley said:

Interesting, I didn't know about the part that I italicized.

https://www.nhl.com/redwings/team/hockey-operations

Yep, he was brought in when Stevie himself came back to the organization.

[slothfacekilla]

Chris was with Steve in Tampa Bay for like nine years it isn't like he just did a nepotism hire of someone who is unqualified for fun.  He brought a decent amount of Tampa people with him.  The dude that Chris "replaced" is now a coach in the Eastern Hockey League after not doing anything for a couple years, so if he was some sort of pro scouting savant he would have certainly been picked up by another NHL team.  And it isn't like the Wings' scouting was lighting the world on fire under Holland.  But hey it is an easy thing to get upset about if you don't bring any context I guess.

[gehringer_2]

5 hours ago, Mr.TaterSalad said:

That's the so what of it all. Yzerman's pro-side scouting has been among the very worst in the league. Whoever advised him to sign some of these dead bodies like Chiarot, Gustafsson, Holl, Husso, Petry, Tarasenko has been advising him incorrectly and giving him bad advice. If he did his own film study and scouting and made the decision to sign many or all of these guys that's even worse I think. At least if he was taking bad scouting advice from someone else in the organization like Aaron Kahn, Chris Yzerman, Dan Clearly, Jiri Fischer, Kirk Maltby, Shawn Horcoff, etc. he could replace them with someone else and give it another go perhaps. If he is making these moves on his own accord, having done his own film study, then he might be the one that needs to go. 

It seems as if our pro scouting needs a complete makeover and that someone or multiple someone's in player personnel might need to be replaced. Scott Harris and Brad Holmes are both good examples to look to of GM's who came in here and immediately went to work cleaning out their respective front offices and bringing in new personnel and with them, new ways of doing business and new perspectives. Yzerman seems to have largely kept the same front office as Kenny had with Cleary, Draper, Fischer, Horcoff, Kronwall, Maltby and good ole boys from the ghosts of Red Wings past. That, on top of giving his brother a cushy job as a Pro Scout in the organization.

In the post season presser he claimed they've made upgrades in the pro scouting dept and it's improving. Yet no reported personnel changes in the upper echelons. 🤷‍♂️

[Mr.TaterSalad]

1 hour ago, slothfacekilla said:

Chris was with Steve in Tampa Bay for like nine years it isn't like he just did a nepotism hire of someone who is unqualified for fun.  He brought a decent amount of Tampa people with him.  The dude that Chris "replaced" is now a coach in the Eastern Hockey League after not doing anything for a couple years, so if he was some sort of pro scouting savant he would have certainly been picked up by another NHL team.  And it isn't like the Wings' scouting was lighting the world on fire under Holland.  But hey it is an easy thing to get upset about if you don't bring any context I guess.

Correct me if I am wrong but weren't all of Cleary, Horcoff, Fischer, Maltby here in the organization before Yzerman? These are Holland holdovers that he kept and all work on player personnel in some capacity. Maltby in particular is a scout. And yes, you are right, Chris Yzerman was with him in Tampa Bay and was brought along with him. So maybe it wasn't fair of me to peg this as some nepotism, crony type of a hire.

[gehringer_2]

10 minutes ago, Mr.TaterSalad said:

Correct me if I am wrong but weren't all of Cleary, Horcoff, Fischer, Maltby here in the organization before Yzerman? These are Holland holdovers that he kept and all work on player personnel in some capacity. Maltby in particular is a scout. And yes, you are right, Chris Yzerman was with him in Tampa Bay and was brought along with him. So maybe it wasn't fair of me to peg this as some nepotism, crony type of a hire.

does raise the question though of why you would come into an org that hadn't produced a player out the draft in years and not completely clean house in the scouting and development staff.

[lordstanley]

Interesting what if that we used to ask. Imagine if Jim Nill had been promoted by the Wings the summer of 2013.

https://www.sportsnet.ca/nhl/article/through-deft-drafting-and-dealing-jim-nills-stars-emerge-as-consistent-force/

EDMONTON — As architect of a team playing in its third straight conference final, Jim Nill chuckles when asked if he saw any of it coming.

“No, no, there were too many unknowns,” said the humble 67-year-old Hanna, Alta., product during a quiet sit-down at Rogers Place.

“If you asked me coming out of the bubble here in Edmonton during COVID, I was worried where we were going. It was Jamie Benn and Tyler Seguin’s team, and they were getting into their 30s, starting to age out.”

After losing to Tampa in the 2020 Stanley Cup Final, a rebuild seemed inevitable.

“We're in a different market down in Dallas, and rebuilds are tough, so I'm sitting there, hoping I wouldn't have to go to that route and that there was another way to do it,” he said.

“Then, all of sudden, these players showed up, so it didn’t become an option.”

In a league in which conventional wisdom suggests teams almost always need to go through several lean years to aid a reboot, the Stars have been a model of consistency based on their ability to draft better than most teams the last dozen years.

“Our scouting and development team did a good job and suddenly we hit on a couple big drafts,” said Nill. 

“Guys like Roope Hintz (49th in 2015) and Esa Lindell (74th in 2012), were all coming up through the farm system, so the combination of that and another big draft where guys hit well kind of put us to the next level again. So instead of taking that dip, we were able to stay pretty consistent.”

The big splash he refers to came in 2017 when the Stars snagged Miro Heiskanen third overall, Jake Oettinger 26th and Jason Robertson 39th. Thomas Harley was selected 18th overall in 2019, but the organization went into the bubble tourney still unsure just how impactful each of them would be.

It was only clear a few years later they would be franchise cornerstones. 

Edited May 29 by lordstanley

[slothfacekilla]

3 hours ago, Mr.TaterSalad said:

Correct me if I am wrong but weren't all of Cleary, Horcoff, Fischer, Maltby here in the organization before Yzerman? These are Holland holdovers that he kept and all work on player personnel in some capacity. Maltby in particular is a scout. And yes, you are right, Chris Yzerman was with him in Tampa Bay and was brought along with him. So maybe it wasn't fair of me to peg this as some nepotism, crony type of a hire.

 I believe you're right about all the holdovers but I'm not 100%.  Horcoff has been promoted by Yzerman too.

[gehringer_2]

3 hours ago, lordstanley said:

Interesting what if that we used to ask. Imagine if Jim Nill had been promoted by the Wings the summer of 2013.

 

There was talk even at the time that the Wings let the wrong guy go - there were people that recognized Nills ability. But the org was still flying high and that meant the guys at the top had to be the best, didn't it?

[slothfacekilla]

I believe the Wings wanted Holland to move on from GMing (for Yzerman?) and Holland said no.  So I don't know if Nill was ever destined to hang around long enough until ownership forced Holland's hand.  It seems like Kenny wanted to hang on as long as possible.

Nill's a great GM but he's still won nothing in 12 years in Dallas🫣

[buddha]

jonathan toews wants to come back.

any interest?

[gehringer_2]

27 minutes ago, buddha said:

jonathan toews wants to come back.

any interest?

No, he would have been perfect in his 20's when he was generating great take away/give away ratios - exactly what the Wings need. But that ship has sailed.

Edited May 29 by gehringer_2