Week Six: Detroit Lions (4-1) @ Kansas City Chiefs (2-3)

[romad1]

8 minutes ago, Jason_R said:

This is not the first time Detroit has had points taken off the board by the officials on an arcane point from the rule book in a prime time game. So did Dan talk to the refs about this play before the game? Assuming so, what was that conversation? Did they get out their rule books after and look for a technicality?

Ya don't say.   

I realize you definitely have been through the same Lions Fan Fury Sundays as we all have.  Just being sarcastic for my own therapeutic ends. 

I wonder if MCDC is going to do to pull a 2024 Dallas game out of his team this Monday night.   We will need one for sure. 

[Jason_R]

As always, it is disappointing when the refs pull points off of the board. It would have been a different game had they not. 

Also, ASB catches that pass 999 times out of 1000. It is a different game if he catches it. 

Apart from that, it seems like the front seven was a lot less aggressive tonight than they were against the Ravens. Was that by choice given the depleted secondary, or was it that they just did not have time to get home? Probably a bit of both.

Hopefully Alim is back for TB to juice the pass rush. Then we can get healthy over the bye. 

[MichiganCardinal]

This bit about nothing coming from upstairs defies what my eyes told me watching last night. It’s absolutely a lie. Just like they lied in Dallas.

JG scored, I celebrated. Turned back to the field and saw the Referee and Down Judge talking. I said aloud, “oh here’s Dallas all over again!” They came to an understanding and separated, went to go spot the ball for the XP. I remember saying “okay we’re good!”

Then while they’re back together, the second time, the Referee nods, abruptly walks away, and throws the flag.

[Mr.TaterSalad]

The NFL needs to make every single penalty reviewable and open to the challenge flag. League officials cannot be trusted to make the right call anymore, not that they ever could really. It all needs to be second guessed and reviewed for accuracy. Furthermore, the NFL needs a ref clock, much like a play clock the players have to abide by. The refs have 30 seconds, from the time the play was blown dead, to make a decision to throw a flag. For there to be over a full minute of time gone by before they decided to throw the flag is absolutely ridiculous. That can't happen.

[MichiganCardinal]

For context here was my view:

 

 

[Mr.TaterSalad]

21 minutes ago, MichiganCardinal said:

This bit about nothing coming from upstairs defies what my eyes told me watching last night. It’s absolutely a lie. Just like they lied in Dallas.

JG scored, I celebrated. Turned back to the field and saw the Referee and Down Judge talking. I said aloud, “oh here’s Dallas all over again!” They came to an understanding and separated, went to go spot the ball for the XP. I remember saying “okay we’re good!”

Then while they’re back together, the second time, the Referee nods, abruptly walks away, and throws the flag.

This is a ****ing ridiculous explanation. The fact that the league has to write a novel to explain why something was a penalty shows how over thought and over complicated their rule book is.

[Jason_R]

58 minutes ago, Mr.TaterSalad said:

The NFL needs to make every single penalty reviewable and open to the challenge flag. League officials cannot be trusted to make the right call anymore, not that they ever could really. It all needs to be second guessed and reviewed for accuracy. Furthermore, the NFL needs a ref clock, much like a play clock the players have to abide by. The refs have 30 seconds, from the time the play was blown dead, to make a decision to throw a flag. For there to be over a full minute of time gone by before they decided to throw the flag is absolutely ridiculous. That can't happen.

They also need to make the audio between NY command center and field officials available after the fact. If they want to put to bed any notion that they might be in cahoots with the bookies who are now their biggest sponsors. 

[Jason_R]

 

[Hongbit]

It looks like the Lions made a simple mistake in play design.   The play would've been legal if coming out of huddle Goff stayed back in shotgun and maybe faked looking at the sideline to get a signal or and then run out wide.   The rule changed once he walked to center and touched Glasgow.  Thats a minor detail they needed to do a better job on in practice.  

[Motown Bombers]

I'm more upset about the pass interference that kept the drive alive and led to a Chiefs TD. 

[Mr.TaterSalad]

24 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said:

I'm more upset about the pass interference that kept the drive alive and led to a Chiefs TD. 

More upset over that than a penalty that actively took points off the board for the Lions?

[Motown Bombers]

1 minute ago, Mr.TaterSalad said:

More upset over that than a penalty that actively took points off the board for the Lions?

I mean, if that play wasn't a legal play it wasn't a legal play. The pass interference did put four points at minimum on the board for the Chiefs and it was not a penalty. 

[Mr.TaterSalad]

Just now, Motown Bombers said:

I mean, if that play wasn't a legal play it wasn't a legal play. The pass interference did put four points at minimum on the board for the Chiefs and it was not a penalty. 

They called it a legal play though on the field when they called it a touchdown. They even huddled about it, determined it was still a legal play and a touchdown, and then spotted the ball for the extra point. Only after the league chimed in from New York did they suddenly determine it was not a legal play. They used an obscure rule, that most teams and fans have rarely ever watched be enforced, to take points off the board against the Lions. Had the officiating crew huddled once, determine it was not a legal play and overturned it at that point, it would be more understandable. They twice determined though that the play was legal when they didn't initially throw the flag and then huddled the first time and still didn't throw it.

[Mr.TaterSalad]

 

[MichiganCardinal]

Why do we have rules if we aren’t going to follow them? NFL Rule 15-4(g) clearly states: “any aspect of a play not listed as reviewable in Section 3 of this Rule” is unreviewable. Nothing about motions, formations, or getting set is anywhere in Section 3. If it were, half the tush pushes could come back for the false start. Juwaan Taylor would get called for being in the backfield a lot more too.

A parallel would be the Seahawks-Lions game from a decade ago with the batting out of the end zone. The official staring right at it inexplicably called it nothing. That’s not reviewable. They shouldn’t be calling down on that either.

No matter the intentions and trying to get some obscure penalty right, the on-field officials should be absolutely constrained by the four corners of the rule book. That should be their Bible. That is how you keep everyone on a level playing field. They didn’t do that yesterday. To circumvent the rule, they just lied to us and claimed it was decided on the field when it so clearly wasn’t. Because it’s not like the NFL would ever release the audio from their communications!

To me, that shows a complete lack of integrity that’s far worse than any missed call. 

[Jason_R]

I don’t even know who two of the top three defensive performers are. And the third is a backup. 

[1984Echoes]

1 hour ago, Jason_R said:

They also need to make the audio between NY command center and field officials available after the fact. If they want to put to bed any notion that they might be in cahoots with the bookies who are now their biggest sponsors. 

I approve this 1000%.

Or...

.

.

.

Should that be giving 10-1 odds against that they would actually "come clean" like that?

[1984Echoes]

24 minutes ago, MichiganCardinal said:

Why do we have rules if we aren’t going to follow them? NFL Rule 15-4(g) clearly states: “any aspect of a play not listed as reviewable in Section 3 of this Rule” is unreviewable. Nothing about motions, formations, or getting set is anywhere in Section 3. If it were, half the tush pushes could come back for the false start. Juwaan Taylor would get called for being in the backfield a lot more too.

A parallel would be the Seahawks-Lions game from a decade ago with the batting out of the end zone. The official staring right at it inexplicably called it nothing. That’s not reviewable. They shouldn’t be calling down on that either.

No matter the intentions and trying to get some obscure penalty right, the on-field officials should be absolutely constrained by the four corners of the rule book. That should be their Bible. That is how you keep everyone on a level playing field. They didn’t do that yesterday. To circumvent the rule, they just lied to us and claimed it was decided on the field when it so clearly wasn’t. Because it’s not like the NFL would ever release the audio from their communications!

To me, that shows a complete lack of integrity that’s far worse than any missed call. 

Huge upset.

Huge revulsion.

In my stomach.

[1984Echoes]

15 minutes ago, Jason_R said:

I don’t even know who two of the top three defensive performers are. And the third is a backup. 

Lopez I know who that is because we signed Roy Lopez in the offseason for DT depth.

But Harper? Had no clue who he was...

And Campbell? Two of them on defense? When did that happen and who is this other Campbell? Or did I just fall asleep somewhere...?

[Hongbit]

 

I think there may be a bigger problem on hand regarding this play.  It’s very possible that someone on the team is feeding information to someone outside to for betting purposes.  It seems like too much of a coincidence.   Also, the Lions won the toss and took the ball making it it’s highly likely they had planned all week on having first possession.  

[Motown Bombers]

My guess is the bettor has connections to Jameson Williams and Malik Beasley. 

[RedRamage]

2 hours ago, Mr.TaterSalad said:

More upset over that than a penalty that actively took points off the board for the Lions?

To me, right now (I reserve the right to change my mind later of course), it feels like the Golden Tate non-touchdown against the Falcons... it was the right call, probably, but it's a stupid rule.

[RedRamage]

2 hours ago, Mr.TaterSalad said:

 

My biggest disappointment on this whole thing was that the flag nullifies just an AMAZING blocking performance by ARSB. If that play stands I think we're all talking a lot more about how great a job he did on it.

[RedRamage]

2 hours ago, MichiganCardinal said:

Why do we have rules if we aren’t going to follow them? NFL Rule 15-4(g) clearly states: “any aspect of a play not listed as reviewable in Section 3 of this Rule” is unreviewable. Nothing about motions, formations, or getting set is anywhere in Section 3. If it were, half the tush pushes could come back for the false start. Juwaan Taylor would get called for being in the backfield a lot more too.

I think the rebuttal would be that it wasn't reviewed, it was discussed by the refs. Now I know that sounds like a semantic argument, but what I mean is the refs have always been allowed to huddle to discuss a play and change their mind... even before replay was a thing. They do this quite often for intentional grounding, for example.

Now... this assumes that the refs really did talk about it themselves and weren't buzzed by replay. That's definitely something that might be debatable, but their story is that they did it themselves without help.

[RedRamage]

1 hour ago, Jason_R said:

I don’t even know who two of the top three defensive performers are. And the third is a backup. 

Yeah, it wasn't a very good performance by many on defense. I honestly felt Hutch wasn't that great in this game.